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This post was originally made by Ghulam Ahmed Rabbi
Author: Imam I. H. Kauser, National President of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Australia
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1. Why crucifixion?
Jews wanted him to be killed through crucifixion, so they can prove that Jesus is not a beloved of God, rather the curse of God is on him. Jews could have killed him easily as they were in hundreds of thousands in number and very strong. If killing should have been their desire, they could have done it easily. Just like they paid thirty pieces of silver to one of his disciples, if they would have paid him more, he might have done this service too. But they wanted him to be crucified so they can prove that he is not from God, rather he is an imposter and a fabricator. If he was from God, then God will definitely save him. May be that was the reason that Jesus was so reluctant to suffer on the cross.
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2. Who wanted him to be crucified?
Two of Jesus’ disciples commented (in Luke 24:20) as follows:
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. (Luke 24:20)
They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the Governor said what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying Let him be crucified…. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (Matt 27: 22-25)
3. Crucifixion was demanded by the Jews
When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. (John 19:6)
The Jews answered him (Pilate), We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (John 19:7)
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Christianity: A Journey From Facts to Fiction
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4. One incident and many aspects?
- Romans took it as punishment of sedition.
- The Jews made it as a punishment of blasphemy.
- Jesus considers it a killing, when one of his disciples betrayed him.
- Christians think a sacrifice presented for our salvation.
Who is right?
5. Why Jesus was hiding?
That’s why the Jews paid thirty pieces of silver to Judas giving them the necessary information about Jesus.
…Neither go into town, nor tell it to any in the town. (Mark 8: 26)
And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. ((Mark 8: 30)
6. Jesus’ prayers and supplications to be saved from crucifixion:
Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. (John 26: 36)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. (John 26: 39)
…. He went away again, and prayed the second time and prayed, saying ……and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (John 26:42-44)
7. God always hears his prayers and his prayers were heard
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)
8. An Angel was sent to strengthen Jesus?
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22: 43-44)
9. Pilate delays in judgment
Pilate intentionally delayed in giving his verdict and did not deliver his judgment until and unless he was sure that due to the Sabbath, Jesus would be on the cross for only a few hours. Jesus a thirty-three years young person was on the cross for only few (3-6) hours.
10. Pilate’s complete favor to Jesus
Pilate was in complete favor of Jesus, considering him innocent, and for his wife’s dream, was trying to save his life. That’s why Pilate wanted to use his special right to free one person, but the Jews did not let him do it.
Pilate said unto them, whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas or Jesus…. But the chief Priests and the elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. The Governor answered and said unto them, whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said Barabbas. Matt 27: 17-21)
11. Pilate’s wife sees a dream to save Jesus
When he sat down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.” (Matt 27:19)
Why was this dream was against the purpose of the advent of Jesus, to give his life on the cross? Her dream should have been that crucify him immediately. Let him finish his work. But her dream was against it. Although her dream was so special that it was mentioned in the Bible.
12. Pilate finds him “Not guilty”
… Pilate … he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person. (Matt 27:24)
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Click to read Prophet Confucius: His testimony for one God and against Pauline Dogma
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13. Earthquake, eclipse & a storm – A sign of God’s disliking & anger
An earthquake, eclipse of Sun and a Storm, all three occurred just after the crucifixion is a clear sign of God’s anger.
Now from sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. (Matt 27:45)
…the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. (Matt 27: 51)
14. Pilate marveled
And Pilate marveled if he were already dead. (Mark 15: 44)
When Pilate was informed about the death of Jesus on the cross, he marveled at hearing it. We know that Pilate was the most experienced person in this field; who may have experienced hundreds of crucifixions in his time. That is why; he knew very it well that a 33 years, unmarried young person shouldn’t die in few hours, while the other two thieves (elder than him) were still alive after the crucifixion.
15. The other two (thieves) next to Jesus were still alive so they broke their legs
Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. (John 19: 32)
16. Blood and Water – a great sign of Jesus’ life
When a soldier pierced a spear in Jesus’ side, blood and water gushed out from his body, with full pressure, is a sign and a witness that Jesus’ heart was still pumping and he was alive
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (John 19:34)
Why coming of blood and water is so important that the narrator of the incident specially describes:
And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. (John 19:35)
The person has put all stress on the truth of this witness, because of the great importance of it.
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross: http://t.co/ohKLP6hTHl
— O J DEEN (@JAMALDEEN2010) March 30, 2013
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17. Why the soldiers checked Jesus alive or dead, piercing him a spears. What was the criteria, then to recognize?
The concept that one of the soldiers pierced Jesus a spear to check him, either he is alive or not, does not make any sense until and unless there was really a way of checking this way. Piercing Jesus a spear or some other way? What was that? How did they do it? Because one of the soldiers pierced a spear in Jesus’ body. Not to check his life or death. Otherwise they should have done the same with other two also.
18. Jesus legs were not broken
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they broke not his legs: (John 19:33)
19. Jesus was not buried in the grave
The Jewish custom for the last thousands of years was to bury the deceased in the ground. Because the disciples knew the predictions, which were made earlier by Jesus Christ, they kept Jesus’ body in a sepulcher. If they had buried him in a grave, he would have died. But his disciples placed him in a roomy “Sepulcher?” Rather then burying him in the ground according to the Jewish custom and traditions.
20. Neither Jews nor Christians are sure about Jesus’ death on the cross
There was a very strong earthquake, a storm and an eclipse of sun just after the crucifixion of Jesus, that made all Jews and Romans run away from the sight. That is why; neither Jews nor the Christians are sure about the death of Jesus on the cross but a gesture.
21. The stone on the sepulcher was removed
(For a spirit, does not need to remove the stone)
Jesus forbade Mary Magdalene to touch him.
Touch me not. (John 20:17)
Why?
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Click to read: Prophet Zoroaster : A Witness against Pauline Dogma
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22. Jesus said, “ He has not ascended yet. What did he really mean?
Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God. (John 20:17)
What are the real meanings of ascension here, when Jesus said to Mary “I am not yet ascended to my Father.”
Certainly, it was understood and very clear without any doubt that Jesus had not ascended yet, while he was standing just in front of her. Then why Jesus said that he was not ascended yet?
23. Mary did not react, when she saw Jesus alive. Why?
24. Disciples were terrified seeing Jesus. (Luke 24: 39)
25. Jesus ate food, in the presence of his disciples.
… he said unto them, have ye here any meet? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. (Luke 24:41-42)
Jesus saith unto them, come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who are thou? Knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise. (John 21: 12-13)
A spirit does not need any food but our physical body, which becomes weak after a while, without having food. Why Jesus needed food, if he had gone back to his original body of God.
For forty days he was meeting his disciples to assure them that he was alive and now going to the lost sheep of house of Israel, as he promised and assigned by God like Jonah was assigned to the Nin-e-viets.
…many infallible proofs being seen of them for forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. (Acts 1:3)
26. Jesus never showed himself to the Jews (who challenged him) after he was saved from the accursed death of cross.
27. How come Jesus never said “I was dead and now I am alive?”
28. Jesus’ prediction about his sign to be very similar to the sign of Jonah
Jesus predicted his sign would be similar to the sign of Jonas.
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall be no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s bally; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt 12:39-40)
This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. For as Jonas was a sign unto the Nin-e-vites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation…for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Luke 11:29-32)
Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the bally of the fish three days and three nights. (Jonah 1:17)
And Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 2:10)
And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it preaching that I bid thee. And Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh. (Jonah 3:1-3)
- Jonas entered into the belly of whale alive– Jesus died on the cross and entered in the heart of the earth dead.
- Jonas remained alive in the bally of whale. – Jesus Remained dead.
- Jonas came out alive bodily. – Jesus came out in spirit.
- Jonas stayed three days and three nights in the bally of whale. – Jesus one day and two nights.
- Jonas went back to his people. – Jesus went back to heaven. Without fulfilling the promise which he made earlier, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt 15:24)
Jesus should have gone to the lost tribe of Israel, as Jonas went to his people “Nin-e-vites”, not to heaven.
29. Appearance of an Angel, saying, why, you looking for a living person into the dead.
And it come to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seeketh ye the living among the dead. (Luke 24:4-5)
And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. (Luke 24:23)
30. The stone of tomb was removed
It was a physical body not a spiritual one:
And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. (Luke 24: 2)
31. Jesus’ prayers against his death on the cross
Jesus prayed again and over again, saying, O God, take this cup away from him. Why he prayed against the purpose of his advent?
“And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me….” (Mark 14:36)
If his escape from the death on the cross was not possible then why Jesus was praying for it? Didn’t he know?
32. Jesus awakening his disciples, requesting for special prayers for his safety
“…saith to his disciples, sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder…. And began to be sorrowful and very heavy… And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and said unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray…” (Matt 26: 36-41)
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Click to read: Prophet Buddha: A Witness against Pauline Dogma
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33. Jesus’ in flesh and bones after he had risen
Jesus showing his hands and feet to his disciples, proving and arguing them, that he was alive bodily.
“They were terrified and affrighted and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts are in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see for a spirit hath no flesh and bones, as you see me have…. he shewed them his hands and his feet.” (Luke 24:37-40)
34. Why Jesus needed the body (Flesh) again?
35. Jesus’ wounds- a great sign of his survival
Jesus through showing his wounds to his disciples was proving that he was alive bodily:
The other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the Lord. But he (Thomas) said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of his nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe… Then he said to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: be not faithless, but believing. (John 20: 25-27)
A Spirit can’t have the wounds. It means he was alive bodily.
Why Jesus addressed Thomas “not to be faithless but believing? Jesus advised Thomas to have faith, but in which and what? Yes! Faith in the fulfillment of the promise of God saving Jesus from the accursed death on the cross which Jews had designed for him.
Why Jesus had a physical body after he had risen from the dead? Why this physical body still had the signs of wounds? Now there should have been nothing but his soul and spirit? Did he want to take these wounds along with him to the heavens to show them to God? If that is the case, then, we know very well, that these wounds alone did not kill him, but many other things including the cross. If he needed the proofs of his service to be presented to God, then he should have taken all his wounds including, the signs of flogging, beating, hitting, kicking, spitting and the cross (piece of wood) on which he was crucified.
36. Jesus prayers and God’s response: (Hebrews 5:7)
37. Hungry Jesus, asking for food
He ate fish and a honeycomb.
38. Jesus’ shroud: -“Shroud of Turin” a sign that Jesus was alive.
“And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth.” Matt 27:59)
39. Using 100 pounds of aloes, myrrh and some other spices on Jesus’ body, as the manner of Jews. Whether Jews use 100 pound of myrrh, aloes and some other spices at their burial? Or there were some special arrangements were made for Jesus’ safety. Nicodemus, who was a physician and a disciple of Jesus, made this special arrangement before the crucifixion of Jesus:
And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to burry. (John 19:39-40)
40. Jesus said “I am going to ‘Galilee’ before the disciples.”
41. An error made by the Jews: – “….the last error shall be worse than the first.” (Matt 27:64)
Jews accepted that they had made an error. What kind of error had they made? Now they were afraid not to make another error. Did they make another error? Yes! They did.
42. Why Jews bribed the soldiers?
Jews bribed large money) the soldiers who had been assigned to guard the sepulcher.
“And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken council, they gave large money unto the soldiers.”(Matt 28:12)
They bribed the soldiers to hide the fact. What was that?
43. Empty tomb of Jesus (the sepulcher), is a great Mystery. Jesus body was not found in the sepulcher.
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Mother Mary wants all Christians to be Muslims! The Doctrine of immaculate conception
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44. Jews were afraid of a conspiracy: –
Jews were sure, even ahead of time that his disciples will definitely announce, “Jesus had been ascended to heaven” as it is mentioned:
“…Pharisees came together unto Pilate, saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, after three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulcher be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal his him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead.”(Matt 27: 63-64)
45. Jesus’ crucifixion- a test of Jews
The crucifixion was made criteria for Jesus’ truth. The Jews at the time of crucifixion said: – “…save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.” (Matt 27:40)
“Let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.”(Matt 27:42)
“He saved others; himself he cannot save.”(Matt 27:42)
46. Could Jesus save his life? If he is God then perhaps he could. If he could then it is a suicide.
But, he was constantly pleading to God the Father for the bitter cup to be taken away.
47. Pilate’s complete favor for Jesus; _Pilate; the Governor tried his best to save Jesus’ life, because of his wife’s dream.
48. Jesus never demanded “Crucify me”, but the Jews demanded from the Pilate, “Crucify him- crucify him.”
“Then all say unto him, Let him be crucified.” (Matt 27:22)
49. Jesus defended his case in the court, argued with the Jews, and refuted their accusations. Jesus never said, “Hurry up crucify me, for I have come, just for this purpose, although I am already 4000 years late, going by the Biblical calendar and time of Adam and Eve.”
50. Jesus never went to the cross happily, but in miserable situation.
51. Who compelled Jesus to be crucified and why?
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St Paul The 13th Apostle? Do Read
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52. Jesus said: “For salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22) What it means? And why only for the Jews?
53. Crucifixion – a killing in the eyes of Jesus.
Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19)
But you seek to kill me. (John 8:40)
For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. (Mark 9:31)
54. Jesus complained to God, why have you forsaken me? It means, God for his safety made a promised.
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, My God, why have hast thou forsaken me? (Matt 27:46)
55. In Jewish law, the “Crucifixion” was an accursed death”-
“…for he that is hanged is accursed of God” (Deut 21: 23)
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for ud: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.” (Galatians 3: 13)
56. Why the disciples of Jesus, when they met him in Galilee, still had some doubts? “…Some doubted” (Matt 28:17)
What kind of doubts and what about?
Did they have doubts about Jesus being alive and saved from the accursed death of cross or some thing else?
57. Jesus said, “Even so every good tree bringth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringth forth evil fruit.” (Matt 7:17)
How come that this heinous crime of persecuting him mercilessly brought such a good result?
58. Making his arrest is a greater sin
“Jesus answered (to Pilate); He that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.” (John 19:11)
How a greater sin can bring salvation to the world. Sin means, being disobedient to God, breaking His laws and commandments.
“…the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. (Matt 26:45)
59. Jesus accursed Judas for his betrays.
Jesus said, “…but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.” (Matt 26:24)
But, it was Judas who made the salvation possible. If he had not been born, there would not have been any salvation for us.
Jesus said, “It had been good … if he had not been born.”
Why the contradiction?
60. Who can kill God? God is Holy. Nobody can kill God. God is eternal and immortal, free from the suffering of death. He is always alive. He is out of the approach of the human hands. Sinners’ hands cannot reach Him or harm Him.
If Jesus died for three days and three nights, then he is no longer eternal and hence not co-equal to God the Father.
61. Why Jesus (if he was a God) let the Jews and Romans disgrace Him and do all kind of insulting and persecution? What “The Most High” means and “God is Great.” God is not supposed to be humble and show not only humility, but actually disgrace at the hands of His enemies.
62. Jesus never mentioned that the purpose of his coming was to give his life on the cross.
63. Salvation through keeping the commandments of God:
Jesus never mentioned that people’s salvation is in believing Jesus’ death on the cross. Rather he promised that the heaven’s eternal life is in following and obeying the commandments of God. As it is in the Book of Matthew:
And behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt 19:16-17)
64. If salvation through crucifixion, then the credit goes to Jews, Romans & Judas
They are the Jews who demanded from the Roman Governor Pilate to put him on the cross. And Judas betrayed Jesus and made his arrest possible; otherwise Jesus was hiding in the garden of Gethsemane. Chief Priests paid thirty pieces of silver to Judas for informing the authorities for his arrest.
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Jesus wasn’t born on December then why is Christmas celebrated on 25th?
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65. A soldier saw Jesus walking, informs the chief priest
“The watch” who saw (Jesus and his disciples meeting and going) all these things, told the Chief Priest in the city.
Now when they were going (Jesus and his disciples), behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. (Matt 28: 11)
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Watch now! Govt of India Documentary on Jesus in Kashmir!
It has tonnes of evidence put together in a very constructive way.
Day by day we are moving towards uncovering the mask of the false dogma of Christianity.
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65 Reasons to Believe #Jesus Did Not Die on the #Cross
Read more: http://t.co/dtcpARiHvd— LajnaIma’illahCanada (@LajnaCanada) January 25, 2015
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Categories: CHRISTIANITY, Easter, Highlight, Religion and Science
These verses of the Holy Quran tells us all prophets are send with the message that there is only ONLY GOD and HE DOES NOT have a son and these prophets act and speak according to His will and so are sinless. (one can also read verse 3:162 and 12:110).
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And We sent no Messenger before thee but We revealed to him, saying, ‘There is no God but I; so worship Me alone.’
And they say, ‘The Gracious God has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He. Nay, they are only honoured servants.
They speak not before He speaks, and they act only by His command.
[Holy Quran 21:26-28]
Zia Shah, pls i do not mind having an explanation from you. the thoughts i shared from the Quran were deleted. does it mean that christians are more liberal? allowing other religions to quote the bible freely?
Zia Shah, There are many Islamic boards which just do not allow any criticism of the koran, mohammed, allah and things muslim BUT go overboard in criticing Christianity with all the lies about it at their command.
What I like in the TMT is that you allow free debate even though I notice that at times remarks regarding the koran, mohammed, allah, ahamadiyas etc., are chopped off. THAT I think is your perogative, but the important point is yours is one “Islamic” site that allows the Koran, Mohammed, Allah, Ahmadiyas and other things islamic to be lampooned.
Zia, the fact is that you deleted my mail because the thoughts i raised were quotations in the Quran where muslims were encoureged to kill & subdue christians &jews untill they accept Islam. pls encourage muslims to read & analyse the Quran in totality the way they analyse the bible. there are so many hidden verses they do not know because they do not read. thks
Ghulam Sarwar, I will rephrase what I had put in earlier and which was not posted. You so easily accepted what “Shah sahib” posted because YOU WERE WILLING TO ACCEPT it But you cannot even think that Leanardo Da Vince USED HIS IMAGINATION in painting the Last Supper and there ARE COUNTLESS OTHERS who have done the same, so why pick only Leanardo Da Vinci.
I will give you some more food for thought THERE IS NO CHALICE shown in the Leanardo painting. I suppose Leanardo da Vinci read the DA VINCI CODE before painting it.
Now I bet this will cast the cat among the pigeons & we can have some more inane “discussions” as to the why and where and what of the “mistake”.
I clicked on “100s rush Spanish Border” written by
Rafiq A. Tschannen and was led to AL ISLAM (Official site of the Ahmediya Community) where I found an article ‘MOHAMMED IN THE BIBLE” which made me chuckle. I am posting a part of the article here.
“Rational thinking indicates that the world was in dire need of revelation, of water from the fountain of spiritual guidance, at the time when the Holy Prophet appeared. He led an ideal life, a perfect example to be followed throughout the future. He started his mission against immense difficulties. He and his followers met strong persecution and opposition. But he was protected and helped by God in miraculous ways. Before his death his mission was firmly established all over Arabia and was rapidly spreading to other countries.
He worked miracles. He foretold the future, and his prophecies were fulfilled not only in his lifetime but continue to be fulfilled in our time as well. He brought a teaching which has attracted countless adherents since he appeared. In short, all rational tests prove that the mission of the Holy Prophet Muhammad was truly from God.
The Historical Test
There is also another test, the historical one, which our present day world requires of a messenger of God. A notable American Bishop of the Catholic Church wrote in a nationally famous magazine that the test of history available to all men, all civilizations and all ages can be applied only to Jesus, because:
There were no predictions about Buddha, Muhammad, or anyone else -except Christ. Others just came and said: “Here I am, believe me”. Christ alone steps out of the line and answers: My coming was foretold, even to the smallest detail.
This statement is quite challenging and requires attention. We Muslims believe that Jesus was a true prophet of God. We also accept his advent as having been foretold in the previous scriptures.
But what about Muhammad?
We find that his coming was foretold in clear and precise terms not only by Jesus himself but by Moses and other Biblical prophets as well. In fact it seems from whatever words of Jesus are available to the world, that the bringing of glad tidings of a great coming prophet was one of the chief objects of his mission.
Again and again Jesus said that he was sent to the world only to give as much guidance as the people of his own time could bear. As for complete teaching which would stay forever with mankind, he said:
But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14-26)
Only the prophet of Islam could have fulfilled this prophecy of Jesus. Muhammad was truly sent in his name because he bore testimony to his truth. The Holy Quran says:
The Messiah, son of Mary, was a messenger, “surely messengers like unto him had passed away before him” (The Holy Quran 5:76)
The Holy Quran reports that the angels told Mary:
Surely Allah gives you good news with a word from Him of whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and hereafter. (The Holy Quran 3:46)
The Holy Prophet testified to the truth of Jesus as a divine and honored Teacher and Prophet, and declared them mistaken and misguided who thought him accursed. The Holy Quran described his teachings as “guidance and light .”Further elaborating the same prophecy, Jesus said:
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will sent him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. … I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.. and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. (John 16:7-14)
This prophecy clearly lays down that:
The Comforter will come after the departure of Jesus.
When the Comforter comes, he will reprove the world of sin, truth and justice.
He will guide the world into all truth.
The book revealed to him will contain no human word.
He will foretell things to come.
He will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.
I just love the last point of Mohammed “glorfying Jesus and clearing him of all charges”
A reply to AIHANU comment above:
Violence in the Bible and Jihad in the Quran
whosoever believeth in Him is not condermed.whosoever does not believe is condermed already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
MUSALMAAN,
So, the understanding you get from John 14:26 is that Muhammed is the Holy Ghost? since Muhammed is dead, who is the new holy ghost? since the promise of Jesus is that the Holy Ghost should be our teacher, comforter & helper till date. is it that this present generation is without the comforter?
AIHANU, I will present it the Islamic teachings about the Comforter and Holy Spirit.. Holy Ghost is the Arch angel Gabriel a.s. According to the Quran, and the Bible NT, Jesus a.s. was aided by the Holy Ghost or supported by the Holy Ghost i.e. Holy Spirit.
Holy Ghost is not a man. He is an angel. Even Jesus a.s. mentioned it that he was supported by the Holy Spirit, that is why the Christians include the Holy Spirit in Trinity.
The Comforter is not a spirit. Please Read John chapter 14, where Jesus is telling about the Comforter who will come and lead every one to complete truth. He will not speak of himself but whatsoever he will hear that he will speak. AIHANU, can you tell me that a spirit hears and speaks?? It is a man who hears and speaks. Holy Spirit guides the man. The man hears the words of guidance and speaks out to the public.
Again and again Jesus said that he was sent to the world only to give as much guidance as the people of his own time could bear. The one who is sent is called a messenger, a Rasool. He is not God.
As for complete teaching which would stay forever with mankind, Jesus a.s. said:
“I have many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now. However, when the spirit if truth is come, he will lead you into all truth…” as I have mentioned above.
It shows that Jesus a.s. could not finish his mission in his own land. His mission was cut short by his enemies.
Same goes for Moses a.s. He was told by God Almighty that God will raise from amongst his brethren, a prophet the like of Moses…. It means his mission was also not complete. The bible NT refers to him as “That Prophet”. The Jews were waiting for “That Prophet” till the time of John the Baptist and Jesus a.s. It means “That Prophet” had not arrived till appearance of Jesus a.s. and “That Prophet” was to appear from the brethren of the Israelis… i.e. from the Ishmaelis, i.e. Arabs.
That is why the Jewish tribes had settled near Madinah in Arabia because they knew “That Prophet” was soon to appear in that area of Arabia.
It is upto you whether you give any importance to these things. Please consider. Thank you.
Aihanu, that is not what I meant.Please read the piece, I have copied and pasted it from Al Islam to show to what lengths muslims will go so that Mohamed and Allah to be found in the Bible.
Zia Shah, one cant dole out a bad choice to counter a former “bad choice”. This is with reference to your
“Violence in the Bible and Jihad in the Quran”. Remember the Koran came in 650 years after the NT and should have changed the status quo – NOT endorsed it.
Ashok Saldanha you did not read the article carefully, the Holy Quran did not endorse the violence in the Bible. Please read the article again:
Violence in the Bible and Jihad in the Quran
Ghulam,
the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit. He is not an angel. the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God; He is the one that reveals the mysteries of God to our spirits when we become born again 1Corinthians:10-11, He hears & He speaks till date to born again children of God. He is the one that bears witness with our spirits when we receive salvation in order to assure us that we are now children of God. He is in my life today & i am enjoying His fellowship & this applies to anyone who has TOTALLY surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit speaks & hears; i am a witness. my spirit also speaks to Him & hears. it will be most painful on earth losing out of fellowship with the Holy Spirit.
Romas 8:14-19:
FOR AS MANY AS ARE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD
FOR YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE SPIRIT OF BONDAGE AGAIN TO FEAR; BUT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE SPIRIT OF ADOPTION, WHEREBY WE CRY ABBA FATHER
THE SPIRIT ITSELF BEARS WITNESS WITH OUR SPIRIT, THAT WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
IF CHILDREN, THEN HEIRS; HEIRS OF GOD, AND JOINT- HEIRS WITH CHRIST IF SO BE THAT WE SUFFER WITH HIM, THAT WE MAY BE ALSO GLORIFIED TOGETHER.
FOR I RECKON THAT THE SUFFERINGS OF THIS PRESENT TIME ARE NOT WORTHY TO BE COMPARED WITH THE GLORY WHICH SHALL BE REVEALED IN US
FOR THE EARNEST EXPECTATION OF THE CREATURE WAITS FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD.
AIHANU, you have made the comforter as a holy Ghost. Comforter is not holy ghost. When Jesus was about to depart, he addressed his friends with the words: “I have many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now. However, when the spirit of truth will come, he shall guide you into all truth…”
This spirit of truth is not holy ghost. Do you want to tell me that Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit had left Jesus?? It had gone away and Jesus a.s. was telling about its coming?? That is not possible.
Jesus a.s. was telling about a person who will have a spirit of truth. He will come and will listen and speak to people and guide them….
Jesus a.s. was a comforter himself and he told that God will give followers another comforter. That will be another person like Jesus himself, not any holy spirit. Of course, he will also be supported by the holy spirit; the holy spirit will be with that comforter too.
We Muslims believe that holy Spirit is an angel who brings messages (guidance) from God and delivers those messages to the prophets. Jesus a.s. was a prophet. Jesus a.s. was supported (aided) by the Holy Spirit, like all other prophets Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, and Muhammad.
You have changed the category of Jesus to that of God Almighty but given him a status of man-God. That is creating problems for you and other Christians. We Muslims have no doubt or disrespect for Jesus and Mary. It is the Christians who have beliefs that all mankind is sinner except Jesus. We believe that no one is born sinner except the ones who commit a SIN. And all the prophets are sinless.
Zia Shah, I might have used the wrong word “endorsed” but there IS violence in the koran which in a way endorses the violence in the OT since the koran “confirms everything in the OT & NT”. Moreover, why should there be violence in the Koran when it is a “religion of peace”.
Further, the OT is a history of the Jews with all their failings, love interests, lusts, rapes, murders, envy in short the works. There is nothing hidden.
While The line “There are no verses in the Holy Quran to trigger and promote genocide, but there are in the Bible” really caught my attention as it is an effort in generalization that Muslims usually practice to prove a point.
Further there is a line “There are no verses in the Holy Quran to destroy polytheism with sword and kill all polytheists” – another generalization when Sura 3:151″Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with allah, for which He had sent no authority”. This speaks DIRECTLY OF POLYTHEISTS, yet it ALSO INCLUDES Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Mohammed incorrectly believed to be ‘joining companions to allah’).
I would have continued with the “There are no verses in the Holy Koran……” but feel these examples are enough to prove the “truth” in the article you asked me to read again.
You seem to be like most of today’s Muslims who practice a personal choice in interpreting the Koran’s call to arms according to THEIR OWN moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. You are requested to check (2:191-193), (2:244), (2:216), (3:56), (3:151), (4:74) from the Koran and many more along with the Hadiths (sayings of Mohammed).
Ashok Saldanha, it is you who is generalizing and not the Muslims.
You generalize that the Holy Quran approves of every thing in the Old Testament, whereas the fact is that the Holy Quran only approves of what Allah revealed and not of what was later added or twisted by humans.
You did not say anything in the defense of the Old Testament or New Testament as regards violence in the two books.
The way you name the Holy Quran as “Koran,” speaks of a prejudiced culture for centuries, so no wonder you could not understand the article suggested by me, very well.
I still believe that others can benefit very well from the article.
I will show you the meanings of individual verses that you have cited, in due course of time, but for now let me link a few articles for starters, for you and other readers:
Fundamental versus allegoric: War and Peace in Islam
Two Hundred Verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran
You quote 3:56 as evidence for promotion of violence in the Quran, let me quote the verse before and 3:56:
Here the Holy Quran is absolving Jesus, may peace be on him, from charges of his detractors and Allah is telling, how He will judge people and deal with them and not advising Muslims to take matters, into their own hands, rather trust the Omniscience and Omnipotence of Almighty Allah.
The verse 3:151 that you quote above is about defensive warfare, which was imposed on the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, after he had migrated to Madinah, after 13 years of persecution. Here Allah is telling the believers that He will help them in several ways, if they follow His teachings, of patience and loyalty and submission to the Prophet. Let me just put that verse, in proper context, with a few verses before:
Zia Shah, You generalize that the Holy Quran approves of every thing in the Old Testament, whereas the fact is that the Holy Quran only approves of what Allah revealed and not of what was later added or twisted by humans.”
AND YET Mohammed CONFIRMED things from the OT & the NT in the Koran.
Do let me know what has been “later added or twisted by humans” in the OT & NT because I notice that things that do not jell with Mohammed and what he says is always twisted & later added.
Do also let me know what is “defensive warfare” as practiced by a man who is accused of raids on people who did not agree with his teachings.
Sura 3:51 boils down to the last verse whatever the verses before may say.
The day you start believing that the Resurrection was a historical fact and remove the doubts in you, you will change.
It is not Mohammad (peace be on him) who confirmed things from the old or new testament. The Qur’an is a relevation directly from Allah. Mohammad (peace be on him) was only the messenger. As the older religions come from the same God, the creator of us all, it is totally ‘normal’ that some messages in the new book will be similar to some messages in the old books.
There is only one name you need to know to learn about human influence on the New Testament. Just read some of the books of Prof. Bart Ehrman and watch his talks and debates available on Youtube.
I am making life very easy for Christians and giving them short cuts to success and the Truth.
Bart D. Ehrman (born 5 October 1955) is an American New Testament scholar, currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He is a leading scholar in his field, having written and edited over twenty-five books, including three college textbooks, and has also achieved acclaim at the popular level, authoring four New York Times bestsellers. Ehrman’s work focuses on textual criticism of the New Testament, the historical Jesus, and the development of early Christianity.
Zia, pls how come you did not publish the reply i gave to Ghulam’s mail? i sent him some bible references; pls publish it or let me have a cogent reason pls.
AIHANU, I am not sure, what happened to your comment. But, go ahead add your comment with the Biblical references and save your editorial comments for a separate comment.
Man,you lot are really going at it. Jheez why don’t you take this thing I call a BREAK.
Brother Zia,
In all your 65 points you only talked about Jesus(pbuh) did not die on the cross, its a fact and the Muslim world recons it, but what you have not put up was the crucifying act, in one of your point you mentioned that death on the cross was a cursed death, so putting Jesus(pbuh) on the cross was itself a curse to Jesus(pbuh), so did not raise that point,
According to Quran 4-157, it clearly says ” Jesus was neither killed nor crucified by the Jews, and in continuation Quran answers to those like you who will ask what happened then to Jesus(pbuh) if he was not crucified, the Quran says in 4-158 ” Rather Allah raised him to Himself”
Verse 157 and 158 are in continuation, soon after Allah Subhanatalahu revealed 157 He revealed 158.
The Ahmediyya Jamat is misinterpreting these 2 verses and explaining falsely.
Please do reply without deleting my comment.
Crucifixion means death on the Cross, not just putting on the cross.
Arabic word Rafa’a i.e.”raising” means elevating and raising the status, not raising the body. It is raising the soul only in high status. Wassalam.
I am noticing that instead of discussing the 65 reasons, some people are raising questions on Islam and the Holy Founder of Islam. We welcome all questions and are open to discuss all objections as long as raised in a respectful and honest tone.
The following site will answer most of the questions raised against Holy Prophet Muhammad (sm) and if you have more please ask in the site.
http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/
Did Prophet Muhammad kill 700 Jews?
Did Prophet Muhammad teach Muslims to use Terrorism and Jihad to spread Islam?
Did Prophet Muhammad teach death for apostasy and blasphemy?
In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious Ever Merciful
@ Meer Sulaman
Dear Meer Sahib Assalamo Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh and Welcome to this Forum. Insha’Allah we never needed to wipeout your comments, by the Grace of Allah the Jama’at-e-Ahmadia has strong and sound arguments and we just not want to win the argument by hook or crook because: koiee jeet ker bhee haaraa koiee haar ker bhee jeeta; to us winning without truth is meaningless for us.
1) There are so many Christian who offer themselves every year to put them on the cross and their hands and feet are nailed on the cross and after a little while they come down alive if they are ever been named as crucified? Likewise the case of Jesus (a.s.) was remain on the cross for a few hours and came down alive, that is why the holy Quran he was not crusfied and not killed and certainly He was not killed, but Raised (his status) to Himself (To Himself and not on Sky ) Please see the meaning of Rafa in the beginning of 3rd Para or part of the Holy Quran , where with use of the word Rafa with Hazrat Eisa (a.s.) Rafa-e-derjat has been mentioned.
2)Please study the last Rakoo of surat Ma-e-da; where in Hazrat Eisa (a.s.) would admit himself as long as he was among Christian they were on the right path and when tawafaitanee you caused me to die I do not know any thing about them.
3) Being Prophet Allah He would not tell a lie that he did not know as he either stay up in the Heaven and would never return on the earth or would be telling lie which is not possible for a prophet.
4)The Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) himself explain the meaning of Tawaffaitanee as cause me to die in the same scenario upon himself (please see Tafsier surah Maidah in the Sahee Bukharee)
There are so many verses of the Holy Quran on the demise of Hazrat eisa alai-salam, but for the time being I think that much is sufficed.
Wassalam
Zarif Ahmad
Ghulam, sorry it has taken this long to do a second reply; the 1st reply wasn’t published as is the case with some of my mails but i am sending a second reply & hope it will be published.
i know u have great regards for the Bible and for the words that proceed from the mouth of Jesus the Christ. .
Jesus said in
John 14:25-26: These things have i spoken unto you, being yet present with you. BUT THE COMFORTER,WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever i have said unto you.
*throughout Muhammed’s ministry, did he actually remind his followers of ALL the WORDS that Jesus SAID?
John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he shall guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. ALL things that the FATHER HATH ARE MINE THEREFORE SAID I, that HE (THE HOLY SPIRIT) SHALL TAKE OF MINE AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU
John 14:15-16 if ye love me, keep my commandments. And i will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you FOREVER
*to my knowledge, i know ?Muhammed is long dead and not abiding forever as this verse of scripture says.
John 14: 17,18 the SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE BECAUSE IT SEETH HIM NOT, NEITHER KNOWETH HIM; BUT YE KNOW HIM FOR HE DWELLETH WITHIN YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU. i will not leave you comfortless. i will come to you.
the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of God dwells in as many who have yeilded to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and He bears withness with our spirits that we are children of God. He speaks to my spirit & i hear Him when He speaks to my spirit. i ask Him questions when i confused & He always helps with the way out giving me peace.HE SPEAKS, HEARS & LISTENS; every born again child of God will tell you thesame thing otherwise he is not born again & have no personal relationship with God the Father. i pray that the grace & mercies of God draws you unto salvation so that you too can see the mysteries of the Kingdom of Jehovah the God of heaven & earth in Jesus Christ Name Amen.
The koran says they neither killed him or crucified. Why this argument? Humdulillah !
SOME ASSISTANCE REQUIRED PLEASE
Pls i am not really a Quran scholar but i would like to have some refereces in the Quran so i can read them up myself
From certain verses of the Quran sited on this page, i am made to understand that
1. Jesus Christ was a special kind of prophet and has many verses of the Quran to His credit.
2. Jesus died a natural death.
3. Allah raised Him up to Himself.
please i would like to have specific verses in the Quran that clearly state the following:
1. at what age did Jesus eventually die the natural death?
2. since Allah caused Him to die, what was the natural cause of His death? was He sick? or did He die in sleep? or was He poisoned? or how?
3. Who were those with Him when He died? were they His followers or His family members?
4, did He eventually marry? if He did, who was/were His wife/wives and His children?
5. how did he eventually die? was it in the arms of a wife, a follower or how?
6. when did Allah raise Him unto Himself? was it in His old age? or was He raised up before He came back to die naturally?
7. where was He eventually buried when He died the natural death? who were those who dressed Him and buried Him?
I know that the above details are in the Quran about Muhammed and i would also like to have similar references about Jesus since He was a very great prophet.
your references will put to rest a lot of confusion and ambiguities about the death and crucifiction of Jesus in the Muslim perspective.
Aihanu, that was a superb 3rd degree questioning to all the muslims and Mirza Ghulam Rabbi’s “65 reasons that Jesus did not die on the cross”. Put in any other way your questions would not have appeared here. You have stolen the thunder from under this …
& the use of the word “crucifiction” (a Ahmed Deedat speciality) instead of crucifixion was an apt way of clearing the air.
Now I am waiting for the Muslim perspective.
This is in response to the last two comments.
I would let other Muslims give you some details about the questions you ask, to give you an opportunity to change the subject?
I just want to share a small little detail.
Christianity is based on the claim of resurrection after death on crucifixion. If it is resuscitation instead, then it collapses Pauline Christianity, completely. The details surrounding these events are not fundamental to Islam.
Islam bases itself on revelation, by All-Knowing God to all Prophets, including all the Jewish Prophets, starting with Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, David and Solomon, Jeremiah, Ezra, John the Baptist and Jesus and finally Muhammad, may peace be on him.
Here are links to pursue other issues of interest to the Muslims and the Christians:
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
Pope John Paul II and Me: ‘Truth Cannot Contradict Truth!’
The Gracious, the Merciful – God is Love!
Ten Raised to Five Hundred Reasons for Our Gracious God
If Jesus did not die upon the cross: A study in evidence
The Pope Benedict’s account of resurrection and the hearsay rule!
Did Jesus rise in a physical body or a spiritual one?
Gospel story of Jesus’ resurrection a source of deep rifts in Christian religion
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9w-xJfSOyc&w=420&h=315%5D
@ AIHANU
June 18, 2014 at 4:22 am
Ghulam,
i know u have great regards for the Bible and for the words that proceed from the mouth of Jesus the Christ. .
Jesus said in
John 14:25-26: These things have i spoken unto you, being yet present with you. BUT THE COMFORTER, WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever i have said unto you.
*throughout Muhammed’s ministry, did he actually remind his followers of ALL the WORDS that Jesus SAID?
———————————–
My Reply: AIHANU, please note that every day new versions of Bible are coming out from men of this age. They are not from God Almighty. The words ” WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST,” are extra, added in this verse.
I rely very much on the verse 16:13-15 where Jesus Christ a.s. gave his final good news to his disciples about the coming of a Pharklete (The comforter). Let us leave it at that. I have explained before that is not any spirit or holy Spirit. That is a man, referred to as “He”. “He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak of himself but whatsoever he will hear that he shall speak.” That is not a holy Spirit at all.
Why a holy spirit will hear some thing and then speak to the people?? Please try to understand this point. It is a new invention or intervention by the church people in their sacred book, the Bible NT.
That is no harm to us Muslims. That is a great harm to the Christians whose holy book is being tempered with daily. Why they cannot keep the very old version intact and take meaning (guidance) from that? Please strike out the following words from your verse 14:25-26 “WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST,”. Then read your verse again.
==============================================
@ Your presentation: John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he shall guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. ALL things that the FATHER HATH ARE MINE THEREFORE SAID I, that HE (THE HOLY SPIRIT) SHALL TAKE OF MINE AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU
—————————————-
My reply: From this verse, please strike out the following words ALL things that the FATHER HATH ARE MINE THEREFORE SAID I, that HE (THE HOLY SPIRIT) SHALL TAKE OF MINE AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU”, which were not found in old versions of Bible. The words “Holy Spirit” are in brackets anyhow. Then you will be near to the truth:
“ALL things that the FATHER HATH ARE MINE THEREFORE SAID I, that HE (THE HOLY SPIRIT)”
We had never seen these words in old versions of Bible. It was written there “For he shall receive of mine and shall show it unto you.”
This was a news about the Pharclete, the comforter, the man, the person that Jesus a.s. was speaking about. It was not any holy spirit, not any god, not any angel. I can clearly see that new words are added to misguide people that comforter is holy spirit.
Please note that at another place, Jesus a.s. said, “God will give you another Comforter..” That means Jesus a.s. is a Comforter and he is telling God will give his followers another Comforter.. Try to understand that please… See my next remarks… in verse 14:15-16 below.
==========================================
@ : John 14:15-16 if ye love me, keep my commandments. And i will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you FOREVER………
*to my knowledge, i know ?Muhammed is long dead and not abiding forever as this verse of scripture says.
————————————-
My reply: This is true from Jesus a.s. He is telling his friends “If you love me then keep my commandments..” Are Christians keeping the commandments of Jesus a.s. or the commands of Paul. We see clearly that they have discarded the commandments of Jesus a.s. and his way of life, what he practiced all his life. Jesus never said any dirty words about the law. He had never said that the Law of Moses a.s. was curse and it should be abandoned..
This verse is about the Comforter ( a man) similar to Jesus a.s. Jesus a.s. was also a comforter. He said “God will give you another Comforter”. Do the Christians believe that Jesus a.s. was the Holy Spirit?? Not at all. So why they are mixing the Comforter with Holy Spirit????? That is a clear mistake of modern Church.
Jesus a.s. said that the Comforter will remain with you forever. That is also true. It is Muhammad and his teachings that are same as the lovely teachings of Jesus and they are mentioned in the Quran that the teachings of Muhammad will remain with mankind forever and no new teachings will come after him till the doomsday. Nor will any one be able to disturb, abrogate, annihilate the teachings of the Quran.
==================================
This post is getting lengthy. I shall try to address your posts later. Excuse any E&O. Wassalam (Peace be with you).
Ghulam Sarwar, … Your trumpeting of “Nor will any one be able to disturb, abrogate, annihilate the teachings of the Quran” Now really….The abrogation clause and the change my last announcement by Mohammed is very much there in the Quran. If you would like I could educate you on some of them.
GHULAM,
thanks for taking time out to do the above analysis;
please i would like you to analyse the last verses i sited before my conclusion i.e JOHN 14:17 &18. before i respond to your analysis.
And if you do not mind, kindly add the Quran refetences i asked for in my last mail bothering on Jesus natual death
but if you fill it will be too lengthy, just give the analysis of only JOHN 14: 17 & 18 only so i can respond to all your replies on the Holy Spirit. thanks.
My muslem brothers,i c u al claim dt u av a deep knowledge abou xtianity,bt my reproach 2 u z dt ur understandings r nt 4m God. Hwever,i pray Jesus open ur eyes,so u cn c hm,u ears so u cn hear hm calling n ur heart so u cn setle 4 hm. 2nk u.
Dear musalmaan masala, I am sorry I failed to notice your comments. You are welcome about abrogation of verses. Please come forward and teach me. Thank you.
If you think so, Ghulam Sarwar. As for me I thought we had heard sufficiently masala’s opinion …
It seems to be mixed masala and I must have missed it.
Ghulam Sarwar seems the usual ploy of Zia Shah of not publishing anything that does not jell with his sort of thinking is working here.
Which just makes me think that what I had posted holds water regarding Abrogation in the Quran by Mohammed.
Ghulam Sarwar, posting again by deleting a sentence of Christ in comparison with Mohammed. May be Zia Shah will have a change of heart and abrogate his previous decision of not publishing my post.
Ghulam Sarwar, The Quran is unique in ABROGATION according to which later pronouncements of Mohammed ABROGATE his earlier ones. Since muslims boast that the Quran is “perfect” and “there is no other book like it” and other assorted praises ABBROGATION comes down to either Allah did not know what he was talking about and had to change his words from time to time or Mohammed was lying.
This ABROGATION bit has been turned into a fine art form & a science has grown around it known as Nasikh wa Mansukh, i.e.: the Abrogators & the Abrogated
…….
We have no proof of any religious deity. It’s all by faith. I will choose a faith of peace, which is in Jesus.
musalmaan masala, I said in my previous post that your posts seem to be a mixed masala. You have raised the question of abrogation in the verses of Quran. Well, I do not know how you have decided that there is abrogation.
We have posted many times on this forum that there is no abrogation in verses of Quran. Old time scholars not having understood the true meaning of some verses tried to pit them against another verses and they made up a total of about 500 abrogated verses.
That was a creation of their own minds. It was not done by Allah or the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s.
There is a verse in Quran stating “We do not abrogate any verse nor do we make it to be forgotten, (but) WE bring a better one in its place or a one similar (equal) to it.” This verse says that Allah does not abrogate any verse….
The number of supposedly abrogated verses was reduced to about 50 after proper understanding.
In year 1600 A.D.(?) the time of Shah Waliullah Dehlavi Rh.a. most of the misunderstanding was removed and the supposedly abrogated verses were reduced to five only. It means that there were no misunderstood verses except five.
During the time of the Promised Messiah a.s. and the Imam Mahdi a.s. those five verses were all solved and understood and there was none left as abrogated.
So please leave me at that. I have informed you that there is no abrogation of verses in the Quran. If there is any, you should try to present that verse and the verse which is the abrogating verse. Then we will proceed further, Insha Allah. Wassalam.
Dear Etidorhpa, you will chose the faith of peace and be with Jesus a.s. That is very good. The Quran and Islam will support you. I will be with you. Be careful about sticking with Jesus a.s. and do not take any other Lord beside him to overtake Jesus a.s. Be peaceful (non abusive) person. You have nothing to worry.
hi Zia, Ghulam & other muslims on this platform, i am yet to receive a reply to my mail of 21st June. pls can someone reply my mail? thanks.
Ghulam Sarwar, I wonder what ““We do not abrogate any verse nor do we make it to be forgotten, (but) WE bring a better one in its place or a one similar (equal) to it.” This verse says that Allah does not abrogate any verse….” if not abrogation.
and I wonder what
“The number of supposedly abrogated verses was reduced to about 50 after proper understanding.” if not abrogation
and I wonder what
“During the time of the Promised Messiah a.s. and the Imam Mahdi a.s. those five verses were all solved and understood and there was none left as abrogated.” if not abrogation
and finally after all these changes, reductions and solvings of abrogations it seems the Quran itself has changed.
The Quran words were not changed but the meanings of verses was well understood. Allah revealed the verses of Torah, Bible and Quran. If any verses were abrogated they were of the Torah or the Bible. They were abrogated by the verses of the Quran.
Here are links to pursue other issues of interest to the Muslims and the Christians with an open mind:
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
Pope John Paul II and Me: ‘Truth Cannot Contradict Truth!’
The Gracious, the Merciful – God is Love!
Ten Raised to Five Hundred Reasons for Our Gracious God
If Jesus did not die upon the cross: A study in evidence
The Pope Benedict’s account of resurrection and the hearsay rule!
Did Jesus rise in a physical body or a spiritual one?
Gospel story of Jesus’ resurrection a source of deep rifts in Christian religion