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This post was originally made by Ghulam Ahmed Rabbi
Author: Imam I. H. Kauser, National President of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Australia
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1. Why crucifixion?
Jews wanted him to be killed through crucifixion, so they can prove that Jesus is not a beloved of God, rather the curse of God is on him. Jews could have killed him easily as they were in hundreds of thousands in number and very strong. If killing should have been their desire, they could have done it easily. Just like they paid thirty pieces of silver to one of his disciples, if they would have paid him more, he might have done this service too. But they wanted him to be crucified so they can prove that he is not from God, rather he is an imposter and a fabricator. If he was from God, then God will definitely save him. May be that was the reason that Jesus was so reluctant to suffer on the cross.
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2. Who wanted him to be crucified?
Two of Jesus’ disciples commented (in Luke 24:20) as follows:
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. (Luke 24:20)
They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the Governor said what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying Let him be crucified…. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (Matt 27: 22-25)
3. Crucifixion was demanded by the Jews
When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. (John 19:6)
The Jews answered him (Pilate), We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (John 19:7)
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4. One incident and many aspects?
- Romans took it as punishment of sedition.
- The Jews made it as a punishment of blasphemy.
- Jesus considers it a killing, when one of his disciples betrayed him.
- Christians think a sacrifice presented for our salvation.
Who is right?
5. Why Jesus was hiding?
That’s why the Jews paid thirty pieces of silver to Judas giving them the necessary information about Jesus.
…Neither go into town, nor tell it to any in the town. (Mark 8: 26)
And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. ((Mark 8: 30)
6. Jesus’ prayers and supplications to be saved from crucifixion:
Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. (John 26: 36)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. (John 26: 39)
…. He went away again, and prayed the second time and prayed, saying ……and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (John 26:42-44)
7. God always hears his prayers and his prayers were heard
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)
8. An Angel was sent to strengthen Jesus?
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22: 43-44)
9. Pilate delays in judgment
Pilate intentionally delayed in giving his verdict and did not deliver his judgment until and unless he was sure that due to the Sabbath, Jesus would be on the cross for only a few hours. Jesus a thirty-three years young person was on the cross for only few (3-6) hours.
10. Pilate’s complete favor to Jesus
Pilate was in complete favor of Jesus, considering him innocent, and for his wife’s dream, was trying to save his life. That’s why Pilate wanted to use his special right to free one person, but the Jews did not let him do it.
Pilate said unto them, whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas or Jesus…. But the chief Priests and the elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. The Governor answered and said unto them, whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said Barabbas. Matt 27: 17-21)
11. Pilate’s wife sees a dream to save Jesus
When he sat down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.” (Matt 27:19)
Why was this dream was against the purpose of the advent of Jesus, to give his life on the cross? Her dream should have been that crucify him immediately. Let him finish his work. But her dream was against it. Although her dream was so special that it was mentioned in the Bible.
12. Pilate finds him “Not guilty”
… Pilate … he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person. (Matt 27:24)
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Click to read Prophet Confucius: His testimony for one God and against Pauline Dogma
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13. Earthquake, eclipse & a storm – A sign of God’s disliking & anger
An earthquake, eclipse of Sun and a Storm, all three occurred just after the crucifixion is a clear sign of God’s anger.
Now from sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. (Matt 27:45)
…the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. (Matt 27: 51)
14. Pilate marveled
And Pilate marveled if he were already dead. (Mark 15: 44)
When Pilate was informed about the death of Jesus on the cross, he marveled at hearing it. We know that Pilate was the most experienced person in this field; who may have experienced hundreds of crucifixions in his time. That is why; he knew very it well that a 33 years, unmarried young person shouldn’t die in few hours, while the other two thieves (elder than him) were still alive after the crucifixion.
15. The other two (thieves) next to Jesus were still alive so they broke their legs
Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. (John 19: 32)
16. Blood and Water – a great sign of Jesus’ life
When a soldier pierced a spear in Jesus’ side, blood and water gushed out from his body, with full pressure, is a sign and a witness that Jesus’ heart was still pumping and he was alive
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (John 19:34)
Why coming of blood and water is so important that the narrator of the incident specially describes:
And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. (John 19:35)
The person has put all stress on the truth of this witness, because of the great importance of it.
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross: http://t.co/ohKLP6hTHl
— O J DEEN (@JAMALDEEN2010) March 30, 2013
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17. Why the soldiers checked Jesus alive or dead, piercing him a spears. What was the criteria, then to recognize?
The concept that one of the soldiers pierced Jesus a spear to check him, either he is alive or not, does not make any sense until and unless there was really a way of checking this way. Piercing Jesus a spear or some other way? What was that? How did they do it? Because one of the soldiers pierced a spear in Jesus’ body. Not to check his life or death. Otherwise they should have done the same with other two also.
18. Jesus legs were not broken
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they broke not his legs: (John 19:33)
19. Jesus was not buried in the grave
The Jewish custom for the last thousands of years was to bury the deceased in the ground. Because the disciples knew the predictions, which were made earlier by Jesus Christ, they kept Jesus’ body in a sepulcher. If they had buried him in a grave, he would have died. But his disciples placed him in a roomy “Sepulcher?” Rather then burying him in the ground according to the Jewish custom and traditions.
20. Neither Jews nor Christians are sure about Jesus’ death on the cross
There was a very strong earthquake, a storm and an eclipse of sun just after the crucifixion of Jesus, that made all Jews and Romans run away from the sight. That is why; neither Jews nor the Christians are sure about the death of Jesus on the cross but a gesture.
21. The stone on the sepulcher was removed
(For a spirit, does not need to remove the stone)
Jesus forbade Mary Magdalene to touch him.
Touch me not. (John 20:17)
Why?
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Click to read: Prophet Zoroaster : A Witness against Pauline Dogma
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22. Jesus said, “ He has not ascended yet. What did he really mean?
Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God. (John 20:17)
What are the real meanings of ascension here, when Jesus said to Mary “I am not yet ascended to my Father.”
Certainly, it was understood and very clear without any doubt that Jesus had not ascended yet, while he was standing just in front of her. Then why Jesus said that he was not ascended yet?
23. Mary did not react, when she saw Jesus alive. Why?
24. Disciples were terrified seeing Jesus. (Luke 24: 39)
25. Jesus ate food, in the presence of his disciples.
… he said unto them, have ye here any meet? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. (Luke 24:41-42)
Jesus saith unto them, come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who are thou? Knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise. (John 21: 12-13)
A spirit does not need any food but our physical body, which becomes weak after a while, without having food. Why Jesus needed food, if he had gone back to his original body of God.
For forty days he was meeting his disciples to assure them that he was alive and now going to the lost sheep of house of Israel, as he promised and assigned by God like Jonah was assigned to the Nin-e-viets.
…many infallible proofs being seen of them for forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. (Acts 1:3)
26. Jesus never showed himself to the Jews (who challenged him) after he was saved from the accursed death of cross.
27. How come Jesus never said “I was dead and now I am alive?”
28. Jesus’ prediction about his sign to be very similar to the sign of Jonah
Jesus predicted his sign would be similar to the sign of Jonas.
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall be no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s bally; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt 12:39-40)
This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. For as Jonas was a sign unto the Nin-e-vites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation…for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Luke 11:29-32)
Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the bally of the fish three days and three nights. (Jonah 1:17)
And Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 2:10)
And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it preaching that I bid thee. And Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh. (Jonah 3:1-3)
- Jonas entered into the belly of whale alive– Jesus died on the cross and entered in the heart of the earth dead.
- Jonas remained alive in the bally of whale. – Jesus Remained dead.
- Jonas came out alive bodily. – Jesus came out in spirit.
- Jonas stayed three days and three nights in the bally of whale. – Jesus one day and two nights.
- Jonas went back to his people. – Jesus went back to heaven. Without fulfilling the promise which he made earlier, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt 15:24)
Jesus should have gone to the lost tribe of Israel, as Jonas went to his people “Nin-e-vites”, not to heaven.
29. Appearance of an Angel, saying, why, you looking for a living person into the dead.
And it come to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seeketh ye the living among the dead. (Luke 24:4-5)
And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. (Luke 24:23)
30. The stone of tomb was removed
It was a physical body not a spiritual one:
And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. (Luke 24: 2)
31. Jesus’ prayers against his death on the cross
Jesus prayed again and over again, saying, O God, take this cup away from him. Why he prayed against the purpose of his advent?
“And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me….” (Mark 14:36)
If his escape from the death on the cross was not possible then why Jesus was praying for it? Didn’t he know?
32. Jesus awakening his disciples, requesting for special prayers for his safety
“…saith to his disciples, sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder…. And began to be sorrowful and very heavy… And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and said unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray…” (Matt 26: 36-41)
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Click to read: Prophet Buddha: A Witness against Pauline Dogma
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33. Jesus’ in flesh and bones after he had risen
Jesus showing his hands and feet to his disciples, proving and arguing them, that he was alive bodily.
“They were terrified and affrighted and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts are in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see for a spirit hath no flesh and bones, as you see me have…. he shewed them his hands and his feet.” (Luke 24:37-40)
34. Why Jesus needed the body (Flesh) again?
35. Jesus’ wounds- a great sign of his survival
Jesus through showing his wounds to his disciples was proving that he was alive bodily:
The other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the Lord. But he (Thomas) said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of his nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe… Then he said to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: be not faithless, but believing. (John 20: 25-27)
A Spirit can’t have the wounds. It means he was alive bodily.
Why Jesus addressed Thomas “not to be faithless but believing? Jesus advised Thomas to have faith, but in which and what? Yes! Faith in the fulfillment of the promise of God saving Jesus from the accursed death on the cross which Jews had designed for him.
Why Jesus had a physical body after he had risen from the dead? Why this physical body still had the signs of wounds? Now there should have been nothing but his soul and spirit? Did he want to take these wounds along with him to the heavens to show them to God? If that is the case, then, we know very well, that these wounds alone did not kill him, but many other things including the cross. If he needed the proofs of his service to be presented to God, then he should have taken all his wounds including, the signs of flogging, beating, hitting, kicking, spitting and the cross (piece of wood) on which he was crucified.
36. Jesus prayers and God’s response: (Hebrews 5:7)
37. Hungry Jesus, asking for food
He ate fish and a honeycomb.
38. Jesus’ shroud: -“Shroud of Turin” a sign that Jesus was alive.
“And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth.” Matt 27:59)
39. Using 100 pounds of aloes, myrrh and some other spices on Jesus’ body, as the manner of Jews. Whether Jews use 100 pound of myrrh, aloes and some other spices at their burial? Or there were some special arrangements were made for Jesus’ safety. Nicodemus, who was a physician and a disciple of Jesus, made this special arrangement before the crucifixion of Jesus:
And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to burry. (John 19:39-40)
40. Jesus said “I am going to ‘Galilee’ before the disciples.”
41. An error made by the Jews: – “….the last error shall be worse than the first.” (Matt 27:64)
Jews accepted that they had made an error. What kind of error had they made? Now they were afraid not to make another error. Did they make another error? Yes! They did.
42. Why Jews bribed the soldiers?
Jews bribed large money) the soldiers who had been assigned to guard the sepulcher.
“And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken council, they gave large money unto the soldiers.”(Matt 28:12)
They bribed the soldiers to hide the fact. What was that?
43. Empty tomb of Jesus (the sepulcher), is a great Mystery. Jesus body was not found in the sepulcher.
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44. Jews were afraid of a conspiracy: –
Jews were sure, even ahead of time that his disciples will definitely announce, “Jesus had been ascended to heaven” as it is mentioned:
“…Pharisees came together unto Pilate, saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, after three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulcher be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal his him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead.”(Matt 27: 63-64)
45. Jesus’ crucifixion- a test of Jews
The crucifixion was made criteria for Jesus’ truth. The Jews at the time of crucifixion said: – “…save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.” (Matt 27:40)
“Let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.”(Matt 27:42)
“He saved others; himself he cannot save.”(Matt 27:42)
46. Could Jesus save his life? If he is God then perhaps he could. If he could then it is a suicide.
But, he was constantly pleading to God the Father for the bitter cup to be taken away.
47. Pilate’s complete favor for Jesus; _Pilate; the Governor tried his best to save Jesus’ life, because of his wife’s dream.
48. Jesus never demanded “Crucify me”, but the Jews demanded from the Pilate, “Crucify him- crucify him.”
“Then all say unto him, Let him be crucified.” (Matt 27:22)
49. Jesus defended his case in the court, argued with the Jews, and refuted their accusations. Jesus never said, “Hurry up crucify me, for I have come, just for this purpose, although I am already 4000 years late, going by the Biblical calendar and time of Adam and Eve.”
50. Jesus never went to the cross happily, but in miserable situation.
51. Who compelled Jesus to be crucified and why?
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St Paul The 13th Apostle? Do Read
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52. Jesus said: “For salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22) What it means? And why only for the Jews?
53. Crucifixion – a killing in the eyes of Jesus.
Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19)
But you seek to kill me. (John 8:40)
For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. (Mark 9:31)
54. Jesus complained to God, why have you forsaken me? It means, God for his safety made a promised.
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, My God, why have hast thou forsaken me? (Matt 27:46)
55. In Jewish law, the “Crucifixion” was an accursed death”-
“…for he that is hanged is accursed of God” (Deut 21: 23)
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for ud: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.” (Galatians 3: 13)
56. Why the disciples of Jesus, when they met him in Galilee, still had some doubts? “…Some doubted” (Matt 28:17)
What kind of doubts and what about?
Did they have doubts about Jesus being alive and saved from the accursed death of cross or some thing else?
57. Jesus said, “Even so every good tree bringth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringth forth evil fruit.” (Matt 7:17)
How come that this heinous crime of persecuting him mercilessly brought such a good result?
58. Making his arrest is a greater sin
“Jesus answered (to Pilate); He that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.” (John 19:11)
How a greater sin can bring salvation to the world. Sin means, being disobedient to God, breaking His laws and commandments.
“…the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. (Matt 26:45)
59. Jesus accursed Judas for his betrays.
Jesus said, “…but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.” (Matt 26:24)
But, it was Judas who made the salvation possible. If he had not been born, there would not have been any salvation for us.
Jesus said, “It had been good … if he had not been born.”
Why the contradiction?
60. Who can kill God? God is Holy. Nobody can kill God. God is eternal and immortal, free from the suffering of death. He is always alive. He is out of the approach of the human hands. Sinners’ hands cannot reach Him or harm Him.
If Jesus died for three days and three nights, then he is no longer eternal and hence not co-equal to God the Father.
61. Why Jesus (if he was a God) let the Jews and Romans disgrace Him and do all kind of insulting and persecution? What “The Most High” means and “God is Great.” God is not supposed to be humble and show not only humility, but actually disgrace at the hands of His enemies.
62. Jesus never mentioned that the purpose of his coming was to give his life on the cross.
63. Salvation through keeping the commandments of God:
Jesus never mentioned that people’s salvation is in believing Jesus’ death on the cross. Rather he promised that the heaven’s eternal life is in following and obeying the commandments of God. As it is in the Book of Matthew:
And behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt 19:16-17)
64. If salvation through crucifixion, then the credit goes to Jews, Romans & Judas
They are the Jews who demanded from the Roman Governor Pilate to put him on the cross. And Judas betrayed Jesus and made his arrest possible; otherwise Jesus was hiding in the garden of Gethsemane. Chief Priests paid thirty pieces of silver to Judas for informing the authorities for his arrest.
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Jesus wasn’t born on December then why is Christmas celebrated on 25th?
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65. A soldier saw Jesus walking, informs the chief priest
“The watch” who saw (Jesus and his disciples meeting and going) all these things, told the Chief Priest in the city.
Now when they were going (Jesus and his disciples), behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. (Matt 28: 11)
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Watch now! Govt of India Documentary on Jesus in Kashmir!
It has tonnes of evidence put together in a very constructive way.
Day by day we are moving towards uncovering the mask of the false dogma of Christianity.
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65 Reasons to Believe #Jesus Did Not Die on the #Cross
Read more: http://t.co/dtcpARiHvd— LajnaIma’illahCanada (@LajnaCanada) January 25, 2015
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Categories: CHRISTIANITY, Easter, Highlight, Religion and Science
my beloved Mirza Ghulam Rabbi , i see u writing with such intelligence and brilliance like you know God.s mind and how he thinks. I see your why’questions requiring answers that would mean we are as wise as God. I congratulate you. peradventure you are right I imagine how happy God will be considering that these questions actually help make the world a better place and end the bloodshed caused by our brothers in the name of God.but peradventure you’re wrong do you think God will go through the trouble of answering the questions of a noble.intelligent and humble servant like you? With your brilliance and humility I expected your last question to be based on your painful research on when Jesus actually and finally died. But not to worry you’ll be answered when you actually and finally die.
Tara Adnan JD,
The information is not great in the very least. It shows abject ignorance. I will address the issues you have raised.
66. Jesus did not hide. John 20:11 “BUT MARY STOOD THERE WEEPING OUTSIDE THE TOMB—SAYING THIS, SHE TURNED ROUND AND SAW JESUS STANDING, BUT DID NOT KNOW HIM”. The simple reason for that was because Mary was weeping. Nothing is said about anybody hiding. Those of your tribe who claim to be experts are actually ignoramuses at best or outright fakes.
68. Jesus as GOD can take any form. Your quran asks if there is anything impossible for God to do. If God cannot take the form of man , die and conquer death, then death is greater than Him and He cannot do everything.
69. God can warn and save mankind without having to send a ‘final prophet’ (rude words censored).
70. Jesus is all those. As man, He came as God’s reincarnate. As Son of GOD, HE came as the “WORD AND SPIRIT OF GOD”. Check your quran.
71. You did not state which hospital performed autopsies at that time where Jesus would have been taken to for certification of HIS death. It was not just the Roman soldier who pronounced Jesus dead. Both the Roman and Jewish authorities were satisfied of HIS death before authorizing burial. Then the Roman governor put a seal on the cover of the tomb and stationed soldiers on guard duty with strict instructions not let anyone get near it.
72. Jesus said repeatedly that HE and the Father are one. Seeing HIM one sees the FATHER. The spirit of man, though a part of him, still lives on when man dies.Jesus as the Word and Spirit of God can have independent existence. When HE told the young ruler ” Only God is good”, He did not say, “I am not God”. He said that to the man because HE knew all about the man. The young ruler was not ready for what he asked for. When told to go sell his wealth and distribute the proceeds to the poor, he went away very sad and disappointed. That was not what he expected.
Joseph,
That is nice of you. The author of the write up is not basing his argument on facts but on “reasons to believe”. To believe is a highly subjective thing. Everybody has something to believe in. But facts are solid. That is what is lacking here.
You have the freedom to say what you like about someone’s religion without considering that to be rudeness. But when something is said about your religion, even when it is quoted from your religious texts, then it is ‘rude’.
I have noticed before now that my posts were censured. Where is freedom of speech? So my core beliefs can be questioned and ridiculed, but, no, I cannot speak out about your own. You expect me to keep quiet and swallow all the scorn you pour on my religion. What you do may be religious or cultural. Mine is a reaction to what you do. It has nothing to do with culture or religion.
Where the same issues are repeated, the same answers will be elicited.
I am a man; not a she.
It will no surprise me if my comments are not posted again. Such is the ‘religious and cultural thing’.
namelee, your reply to comments of Tara Adnan has fallacy, see your words below:
72. Jesus said repeatedly that HE and the Father are one. Seeing HIM one sees the FATHER.
My comment:That is true. But you are taking wrong meaning from that. Even your Trinity also does not count Father and Son as one. They count them as two. That makes Trinity with the holy ghost. If Father and Son are one then there is no Trinity.
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He did not say, “I am not God”.
My comments: You have misquoted the real words of Jesus i.e. “Why do you call me good? There is no one Good except the One God.” It means clearly that Jesus was denying that he was good or he was god. But you have perverted the words.
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More comments: Jesus may be a word of good news to Mary, the mother. Quran states that there are innumerable words of God, if written and used the trees as pens and the Sea as ink, the ink will fall short (will not be enough) even if more oceans were added.
Jesus was almost hiding after his ordeal of the Cross which he had survived. He could never appear in public and he never did. He met his own disciples only after walking carefully 70 miles to Galilee. He had to suffer hunger and hide outs.
If he was seen alive, it could be very dangerous for him and for many others. He was a condemned man.
Ghulam Sarwar,
At the risk of being accused of repetitiveness, I use the example of man again to explain the Holy Trinity. Man has body, soul and spirit. When the body dies, the spirit and soul still live on. Saying that Jesus and the Father are one does not exclude
the Holy Spirit from being part of that one.
You have to understand that it is not everybody who goes about blowing his trumpet. The Jewish custom, into which Jesus was born, frowned at such immodesty. That was one of the reasons the Pharisees were not a popular group.
To demonstrate how people understood Jesus, we have to resort to what the Bible says.
John 5:18″THEREFORE THE JEWS SOUGHT THE MORE TO KILL HIM, BECAUSE NOT ONLY HAD HE BROKEN THE SABBATH, BUT SAID ALSO THAT GOD WAS HIS FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD”.
John 2;24″BUT JESUS DID NOT COMMIT HIMSELF UNTO THEM, BECAUSE HE KNEW ALL MEN.
Verse 25″AND NEEDED NOT THAT ANY BODY SHOULD TESTIFY OF MAN:FOR HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN MAN”.
Even with modern science, you may remember the last time a man knew what was or is in another man. Such knowledge dwells with God only.
John, the same Apostle whose Gospel you accept, wrote the Book of Revelation where Jesus calls Himself ‘THE ALPHA AND OMEGA’, ‘THE BEGINNING AND THE END’, ‘THE FIRST AND THE LAST’, ‘THE ONE WHO WAS SLAIN BUT NOW LIVES FOREVER’.
Prophet Isaiah, recognized in your religion as one of the early prophets, had this to say:
7:14 “THEREFORE THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL GIVE YOU A SIGN: BEHOLD A VIRGIN SHALL CONCEIVE, AND BEAR A SON, AND HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED IMMANUEL (MATTHEW 1:23 EMMANUEL MEANS ‘GOD WITH US’)”.
I have not read an account of another virgin birth in the quran nor anywhere else. So, Isaiah was referring to the birth of Jesus. Then he said
9:6″FOR UNTO US A CHILD IS BORN, UNTO US A SON IS GIVEN; AND THE GOVERNMENT SHALL BE UPON HIS SHOULDERS: AND HIS NAME SHALL BE WONDERFUL, COUNSELOR, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE”.
I am always amused when muhammadans differ on the Holy Trinity when the quran is replete with innumerable references to it. Let us for purposes of argument, assume that allah is God. There are hardly chapters in the quran where allah does not use the plural pronouns of “we, us, our, ourselves” to refer to itself. Such plurals indicate more than one entity or organism.
There has been an unsuccessful argument that those plurals are used because of the “plurality of majesty”. That is not tenable because I have heard sovereigns use the singular pronouns such as “I,ME,MY, MINE” in their speeches. I have never heard the Queen say ‘OUR GOVERNMENT” in her speech. She normally says “MY GOVERNMENT”.
The greatest proof for the existence of the Holy Trinity is found in the quran,just assuming that allah is God.
Your are introducing words into the quran. It specifically calls JESUS the “WORD” which is quite different from what you are trying to downplay.
Sura 3(Imran):40 “Mary God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary–“. In sura 4(Women):165 He is described as the Word and Spirit of God.That is quite different from your word written with pen and ink. The words ‘WORD and ‘SPIRIT’ start with capital letters signifying their peculiar nature.
There was a deliberate attempt by Muhammad to diminish the status of Jesus which has been imbibed by his followers. Jesus is mercy to mankind and not just HIS mother. Sura 19:20″–AND THAT WE MAY APPOINT HIM A SIGN UNTO MEN AND A MERCY FROM US: IT IS A THING DECREED”.
After the crucifixion, Jesus was at the Sea of Tiberius where he met the disciples who had gone fishing. The sea was not a private pond or pool which would have been exclusive to the disciples. Others were also there and saw HIM. Therefore, the issue of HIS having to go into hiding does not arise. There were other instances when those outside the discipleship also saw HIM.
what is the difference between the soul and the spirit?
The Roman flogging or scourging that Jesus endured prior to being crucified normally consisted of 39 lashes, but could have been more (Mark 15:15; John 19:1). The whip that was used, called a flagrum, consisted of braided leather thongs with metal balls and pieces of sharp bone woven into or intertwined with the braids. The balls added weight to the whip, causing deep bruising and contusions as the victim was struck. The pieces of bone served to cut into the flesh. As the beating continued, the resulting cuts were so severe that the skeletal muscles, underlying veins, sinews, and bowels of victims were exposed. This beating was so severe that at times victims would not survive it in order to go on to be crucified.
Those who were flogged would often go into hypovolemic shock, a term that refers to low blood volume. In other words, the person would have lost so much blood he would go into shock. The results of this would be
1) The heart would race to pump blood that was not there.
2) The victim would collapse or faint due to low blood pressure.
3) The kidneys would shut down to preserve body fluids.
4) The person would experience extreme thirst as the body desired to replenish lost fluids.
There is evidence from Scripture that Jesus experienced hypovolemic shock as a result of being flogged. As Jesus carried His own cross to Golgotha (John 19:17), He collapsed, and a man named Simon was forced to either carry the cross or help Jesus carry the cross the rest of way to the hill (Matthew 27:32–33; Mark 15:21–22; Luke 23:26). This collapse indicates Jesus had low blood pressure. Another indicator that Jesus suffered from hypovolemic shock was that He declared He was thirsty as He hung on the cross (John 19:28), indicating His body’s desire to replenish fluids.
Prior to death, the sustained rapid heartbeat caused by hypovolemic shock also causes fluid to gather in the sack around the heart and around the lungs. This gathering of fluid in the membrane around the heart is called pericardial effusion, and the fluid gathering around the lungs is called pleural effusion. This explains why, after Jesus died and a Roman soldier thrust a spear through Jesus’ side (probably His right side, piercing both the lungs and the heart), blood and water came from His side just as John recorded in his Gospel (John 19:34).
The torture before crucifixion has been exaggerated in recent years. Here is the account of the Gospel of Mark from King James Version, which gives a more realistic picture:
In the Gospel of Luke there is no torture between the verdict and crucifixion.
Dear Michael, is it possible that you read all of the above with your pre-conceived ideas, otherwise there is plenty in here, to make you think out of the box.
As readers we should always follow Sir Francis Bacon’s advice, “Read not to contradict … but to weigh and consider.”
Otherwise, we remain as ignorant after reading something as we were before reading it.
All holy books should be read as though it is for us, not to discredit others. Then we filter all things through the Bible. (Isaiah 8:20. True revival can only come with greater truth.
Jesus is the word of God; but the word of God is Savior.
Jesus cannot return until the time of RESTITUTION of all spoken through all prophets of the Bible. Acts 3:19-21
Jesus confirmed Moses’ message in Luke 16:31 and in Matthew live by EVERY word out of mouth of God.
The OUTWARD sign we follow the God of Israel is that we keep the same holy days as God commanded including Sabbaths of no work. Exodus 12, 20:8-11, Leviticus 23, and Deuteronomy 4:2 Not add or diminish from God’s commands.
God gathers all nations with this truth, because the Qur’an says Say, O People of the Scripture, you stand on nothing till you observe the Torah and Gospel and all God sent down to you.” Qur’an, Al-Maidah 5:68, 69. There religions are told to live by God’s law; and all holy books say there is One Supreme God. This is the desire of all nations; and it is available when we want truth to rule our government as written in the Bible. Glory to God.
My reply to all Christian friends: Jesus, holy Spirit and father form the Triune God. That is Trinity. If Father and son are one, as it is being told here, then there is no Trinity. It may only be twinity. Count Father and son as One. Add the holy ghost and it becomes total two. Not Three.
I had told that we Ahmadis understand and do believe that the Father and son are One. It is not physical matter. It is a Union in principle. they are in accord. The church does not tell the truth and keeps much secrets.
Like the word “begotten” which is used in the Bible (mathew ch 1,line 1) reads: Abraham begat Issac, Issac begat Jacob.
Do we believe that Jesus was begotten by Father in similar manner? Nobody explains it.
The various writers (bloggers) here have gven more than 65 reasons to prove that Jesus did not die on the Cross. He was alive when brought down. His legs were not broken. He was not formally buried. No burial rites were performed. He was laid in a comfortable place. He was well looked after with help from medicines.
The physician in attendance knew very well that Jesus was alive. Jesus had only fainted on the cross.
His enemies (the Jewish elders) could not kill Jesus on the Cross. How can the church explain that a god can die?
The last thing: He had said that he had other sheep too which were not of the present lot. He knew them and had to go to them too..” Those sheep were in Afghanistan and Kashmir.
Jesus must have to go to them and not go to the father in heaven. That would be against his own words.
How many contradictions are in the beliefs of the Church people! How we can point them out again and again!
Here, we have two situations. The one from the Christians that Jesus died on the Cross and got up, became alive.
The other is from the Muslims that Jesus did not die at all. He had fainted and appeared to be dead.
Any one can decide which case is more natural?
There is a word in Bible that Jesus had risen. That word “Risen” is another one like the word “Begotten”. Nobody from the church will explain the meaning of risen and begotten. I beleive that he rose from the place where he was laid. And I am happy that his prayer was accepted and his enemies were not successful. They could not kill him as they had planned (The Crucifixion).
Mind you, this is mentioned in the Quran. And news in Hadith, that Jesus was saved and Jesus a.s. later died a natural death at a good age of 120 years. We Ahmadis support Jesus and his good end, not the bad end presented by paul, i.e. making Jesus as a man-God and killing Jesus for supposed sins of others.
Hi all,
I do not intend to argue, or attempt to win an argument and lose your soul.
In fact I’m just responding to the caption because I believe Christ died on the cross for your sin,
Why? He said he would, there are eyes witnesses, the disciples confirmed it and when he rose up again he was seen.
My question or what I want every disbelieving Muslim to “think ”
About is,
Even if I were not a believer of Christ death, how could I have believe a Quranic counter-account of Christ death written Over 400 years by one author who had never met Christ and rubbish those of his own words written by several of his disciples who saw him, which confirms those of prophets before them?
Sometimes I think dogmatism fumbles with our brains. God created the brain and he is not against our use of it, he is only above it. Even if you don’t believe, Please think again.
Zia Shah,
Can you read the Gospel of John? Here is what it says in 19:1
THEN PILATE THEREFORE TOOK JESUS AND
SCOURGED HIM.
3.AND SAID, HAIL,KING OF THE JEWS! AND THEY
SMOTE HIM WITH THEIR HANDS.
The word ‘scourge’ is defined as “A WHIP USED AS AN INSTRUMENT OF PUNISHMENT”.
As a verb it means “CAUSE GREAT SUFFERING TO”.
‘Smote’ is the past tense of ‘SMITE’ which is defined as “STRIKE WITH A FIRM BLOW”.
There were many soldiers raining blows on HIM.
Why do you think that John does not give a vivid account of what happened? The mere placing of the crown of thorns on His head alone was enough to cause loss of blood and excruciating pain. If you are in doubt of this, then I challenge you to try it.
You say that the church is not telling the truth. John was an eye witness.
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Namelee a typically Christian apologist’s move, just emphasizing what you like to believe and ignore every thing else.
The recent Christian scholarship has accepted that none of the Gospels were written by eye witnesses.
Mark was the first Gospel and John was not written until 100 AD.
Gospels do not agree on torture or its severity.
But, try this:
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
Ghulam Sarwar,
At least you agree with the fact that Jesus was crucified which is contrary to what the quran says. It holds that somebody else was substituted at the point of crucifixion. Who it was, the quran does not say but leaves it to wild imagination. Were that to be correct then the “all knowing” allah would have named the substitute. For that reason, Judas has been freely touted by the main stream sects.
You claim that Jesus did not die but only fainted. That had HE died the physician who attended to HIM would have known. The question is, who was that physician? You further say that HIS bones were not broken which indicated that HE had not died. Matthew who was present says in 19:50 “JESUS, WHEN HE HAD CRIED AGAIN WITH A LOUD VOICE, YIELDED THE GHOST”.
Mark 15:37 “AND JESUS CRIED WITH A LOUD VOICE, AND GAVE UP THE GHOST”.
Luke 23:46 “AND WHEN JESUS HAD CRIED WITH A LOUD VOICE, HE SAID, ‘FATHER, INTO THY HANDS I COMMEND MY SPIRIT’: AND HAVING SAID THUS, HE GAVE UP THE GHOST”.
John 19:30 “WHEN JESUS THEREFORE HAD RECEIVED THE VINEGAR, HE SAID, ‘IT IS FINISHED’: AND HE BOWED HIS HEAD, AND GAVE UP THE GHOST”.
All the four Gospel writers are in agreement that Jesus had died for that is the meaning of ‘yielding’ or ‘giving up the ghost’. Further proof is given by His bone not being broken as those of the thieves and the reason is given for that. John 19:33 “BUT WHEN THEY CAME TO JESUS, AND SAW THAT HE WAS DEAD ALREADY, THEY BRAKE NOT HIS LEGS”.
The reason for the breaking of the legs of a crucified man was to hasten his death. Jesus being nailed on the day next to the Sabbath could not have been left on the cross till the Jewish holy day. The thieves did not die because they had not been subjected to scourging as JESUS had.
According to the Jewish custom, a corpse had to be anointed three days after the burial. The women who went with various ointments to the grave that morning were going to prepare what they thought would be a dead body. They all saw HIM die on the cross.
After having claimed loudly that Jesus was sent to the Jews, you have now made a volte -face to say that HE died at the age of 120 having gone to Kashmir and Afghanistan to see HIS other sheep. Were there Jews in those areas which would have warranted HIS going there? Can you produce any Jewish or Roman source to confirm that Jesus did not die on the cross?
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Zia Shah,
We are on the uneven bars here. You wrote your comment which has been posted. But my reply has not. …
Whenever anyone makes a good academic point, even if it is against my or Muslims’ ideas, I always approve it, to have a good collection of all decent and useful arguments in the Muslim Times.
Generally, only repetitions, comments irrelevant to the post or those that are impolite and hostile are censored.
In this post you already have two comments in series before my comment.
@Nameless
another christian making fun here with his insanity and dumb arrogance.
Dear namelee, you seem to be illiterate or pretending to be iliterate. Do I need to tell you the names of two persons who attended to Jesus body after it was brought down from the Cross.
1. It was Joseph of Arimathia.
2. Nicodemus
Who Was Joseph of Arimathea?:
The role and behavior of Joseph of Arimathea is one of the few things discussed in all four gospels. According to the gospels, Joseph of Arimathea was a rich man, a member of the Sanhedrin who disagreed with Jesus’ conviction. John and Matthew even say that he was a disciple of Jesus. Joseph took the body of Jesus, wrapped it in linen, and buried it in a tomb that he had prepared for himself. (from net.)
John 19:39
New International Version (NIV)
39 He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds… (Quite a heavy dose of anti-biotics.)
Joseph took charge of the body of Jesus. Nicodemus was the physician. He had brought the herbal medicines to heal the wounds of Jesus.
That ointment is mentioned in many Pharmacopia as the “Ointment for Jesus”.
At least i have informed about the two persons names and what they did.
The gospel writers were not there to see what happened to Jesus. They just heard it from some one and wrote the biography of Jesus.
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; Luke 1:1-2 KJV
Luke says, as others have carried the news to us, we also reproduce it for others..
Those who saw Jesus head turn down when he fainted, they described it as “gave up the ghost”. Jesus was still up on the Cross. How could those people ascertain that he had died? He had not died. He had only fainted.
Nobody could say that he was alive. That would have been most dangerous thing to say at that time. All his well wishers agreed that the man was dead. So there is no need to break his legs.
Jesus a.s. was in good health and good young age. He could not die on the cross within few hours. Pilate had helped to delay the judgement (on Friday before the Big Sabath) to help save Jesus.
Now namelee, you are bringing in something wrong from the Quran. Quran does not say that it was some one else on the Cross. That is the most foolish thing that some fourth century monk (Before Muhammad s.a.w.s.) cooked up. Quran (and Muhammad s.a.w.s.) never said that it was some one else on the Cross, and not Isa a.s. You do not believe that story. Then why are you presenting that false theory to me? If you believe that it was certainly some one else on the Cross then please come to me with that belief. Until then, good-bye. And LOve for All, Hatred for None.
Zia Shah,
I try as much as possible to be polite and stick to the subject. Where there is an impolite language used, I have a duty to set the records straight.It is also important that when making or a point facts will be drawn from many sources, including those which relate to your religion. If a point is repeated it is because the same or similar issue has been brought up again.
Now I am finally closing any discussion in this thread.
I will not allow any more comments here, even of my best friends, brothers and sisters and in-laws.
In this final comment, I will summarize some of the materials and give links to pursue a host of discussions, about Islam and Christianity.
I believe that if the writers of the four canonical Gospels, genuinely believed that Jesus died on the cross and if there was a consensus about it, the writer of this article would not have been able to come up with 65 reasons, from the Bible itself, for the contrary position. My two cents.
Here are links to pursue other issues of interest to the Muslims and the Christians:
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
Pope John Paul II and Me: ‘Truth Cannot Contradict Truth!’
The Gracious, the Merciful – God is Love!
Ten Raised to Five Hundred Reasons for Our Gracious God
If Jesus did not die upon the cross: A study in evidence
Any further comments made in this thread, if suitable otherwise, will be moved to one of the above links.
NA Alladin has submitted reason number 66, which I thought is worthy of inclusion. As discussion is closed in this post, I thought, I should make it a part of my concluding comment:
Read with spiritual understanding
The Human Flesh and Blood of Jesus became clinically dead , The Spirit of Jesus there . He warned the women not to touch Him . God’s power at work here , like television image of made up of God’s power . Jesus came out of the tomb as a bright blinding light , His real form but made to be seen . To avoid words but it fits Jesus human flesh was God’s avatar . The human flesh created by God as we are created by God therefore we are God’s children but Jesus was unique . The whole universe is God therefore God is in me as I am in God . Pay attention to the facts of what Abraham was asked to do ? The Jews(chosen in English) Chosen for what . Israel becomes Abraham to the world . The Jews were put through God’s boot camp so the they were ready for as stated Jesus has said Himself “After all , the salvation of the world , comes from the Jews” The Jews did not murder Jesus . The perfect sacrifice happened . No more killing animals and constant cleansing . Holy Communion instead , turning bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ . Remember God sent a Angel to the Apostles which delivered some special powers , no longer disciples but Bishops of God . The spirit of Christ on earth . There are 4000 reasons God made this happen . The human flesh stopped on the cross but not Jesus Christ .
carl: sounds more fairytale than spider man and super man …
Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden , many years a group remember and prayed and sacrifice to God right some how others plunged into paganism . Its one that kept praying to God not things . God started to listen to and in time , chose to protect and guide people nomads . In time after Moses they were put in God’s boot camp . While the rest of the world was pagan . There were no Muslims until Mohamed , right . I not a Muslim . Okay . God all powerful , all knowing , God thinks it , it will happen . I love God , I don not do endless mechanical ritual , to pray to God . I do not sacrifice animals to God , to wash my sins . God created this word . God created the way to Him . We are born of a free will , we are not puppets . I do not discount your faith , pray to God your way . I just a voice in the wind and offer a point of view . Make your own judgment but tell God , I welcome any criticism you say in this forum .
computer glitches , God created this world , pagans do endless mechanical ritual , watch a Japanese Shinto demon exorcism on TV , total chaos . Nothing happens it is just noise . God gave us the means to do so , but not a thing doesn’t exist but not to listen to that other voice telling us to rob that bank . This how the fallen angels work the only way in your mind. God did not give the fallen angels any power over nature therefore can not control you . So you pray to God for help , to keep from the real evil ones . I believe God create Jesus without a human father , God thinks it , it happens .
In a nutshell Muslims consider it appropriate to use twisted logic and reasoning of biblical evidence which by very virtue if its existence is incomplete testimony to the life and works of Jesus Christ, to dismantle ancon validate the very power and essence of his crucifixion. This bite by bite breakdown and analysis of his actual crucifixion is the essence of the eternal sin which jesus came to due for.
Paul above cites how human thought perverts the message of God in the name if truth by mere virtue of the fact that we as humans can not and do not ‘think,’ like God.
And so Muslims I ask you. To please consider with love and respect in your hearts the very mortality of your own souls before attempting to sacrifice that which is eternal imperishable and true.
You can extinguish the light of believers with doubt and darkness for a while but that which is eternal ie. the heart of god as it is bestowed upon all those who revived the message of Christ with truth and sincerity can not be anhiliated in this world or the next.
…
Peace be upon you.
Joya, agree with you completely. Muslims have tried to dissect, analyze, ridicule and trash the Crucifixion and Resurrection but have never succeeded.
About Christ being given a “place of honor” in the Koran there is not a doubt, but doubting (like Thomas) inspite of all the evidence given by people WHO WERE ALIVE and witnessed the Crucifixion and Resurrection brings to zilch His coming into this world.
As you so rightly say….”those who revived (or should that be “received”) the message of Christ with truth and sincerity can not be anhiliated in this world or the next.”
Jesus is LORD. Jesus is the one true and only LIVING GOD.
@carl:
“In time after Moses they were put in God’s boot camp . While the rest of the world was pagan . There were no Muslims until Mohamed , right . I not a Muslim . Okay . God all powerful , all knowing , God thinks it , it will happen . I love God , I don not do endless mechanical ritual , to pray to God . I do not sacrifice animals to God , to wash my sins . God created this word . God created the way to Him . We are born of a free will , we are not puppets . I do not discount your faith , pray to God your way . I just a voice in the wind and offer a point of view .
————————-
1. It is not true that there were no Muslims until Muhammad. It is just a matter of different languages. You say you are not Muslim. Well and good. Please yourself. Remember the meaning of “Muslim”. It means obedient and faithful. He/she is the one who submits to Allah or God or Father in your language, or take it as the Lord of the worlds.
Well if you do not want to be faithful to the creator, it is up to you. I give you a news from a better, famous learned person, who is well known as a Christian. He says:
“It is foolish that every one praises himself, his own beliefs. If Islam means submission to God then we all live and die as Muslims.” J.W.Goethe.
Now I tell you the Muslim belief about all prophets including Adam, Noah, Moses and Jesus (a.s.) they were all Muslims according to Quran, and all were innocent.
According to your theology, all those men of God were sinners. Including mother Mary. What you people have adopted and whatever you are teaching does not appear to be right!!
Also according to you, a new born baby is sinner. Can you please explain to me on what ground you consider a new born baby, born into a decent household, how is that baby a sinner? Just please guide me and give me a good reason. Thank you.
Christians eat and drink and smoke many times in a day but they are not ready to pray to God more than once a week. They think whoever is praying to God day and night, he/she is a puppet. What a bad remark about prayer.
Did Jesus beat any drums and dance and yell few words from a book in prayers, like it is being done in churches once a week??? I hope not. Please be calm and decide who is right and just leave it to that. Thank you. We also do not like bad remarks about our way of life, Islamic way of life.
Ghulam Sarwar, If you think & believe all that you posted regarding “everybody being Muslim” just because they were “innocent” you have another think coming.
Moreover your belief system is a little lopsided because apart from Mohammed NO ONE ELSE saw or heard or even felt allah “talk or reveal” anything. So you blindly believe a man who tells you he heard a voice “revealing things to him”. You believe a man WHO CHANGED the revealations he “received” to suit his own purpose.
And after all that you say “Christians eat and drink and smoke many times in a day but they are not ready to pray to God more than once a week. They think whoever is praying to God day and night, he/she is a puppet. What a bad remark about prayer.” whoever told you that must have smoked something he shouldn’t have.
Revelation is not something new that started with the Prophet Muhammad. It is from very old times. God revealed Himself to Prophet Abraham a.s. through angels who visited Abraham a.s.
Allah spoke to Moses a.s. which only Moses a.s. heard and he told to his people what he heard.
That is common with men of God. Jesus a.s was a man of God. He was helped (aided) by the holy spirit who is an angel(Gabriel). Jesus a.s. was guided by God Almighty to do things as God wanted him to do. And he did those good things.
So, I believe in the truth of Jesus and his true disciples. I do not believe in any one who had been an enemy of Jesus or enemy of the followers of Jesus. I believe in the revelation that Jesus received from God Almighty whom he used to call Father.
Perhaps Father never addresses Jesus as his son. I will be happy to know if God addressed Jesus as his holy son. It is difficult to believe anything in the Bible nowadays because every day a new edition full of alterations and amendments is coming out in the market.
Revelation is a mercy from the God Almighty. It descends on the prophets and His messengers. They listen and obey and go through hardships to do the work of God Almighty in this world. That is meant to guide the people towards peace and good works.
Old testament is full of the words, “So says your Lord…”, “So says God Almighty….”
Can we say that was all lies? We believe that it was true and so it was true what was given to Moses and Jesus a.s. and Muhammad s.a.w.s. in the form of revelation (news) from the God Almighty. We must strive hard to believe in Revelation, Rationality, knowledge and truth.
Muslims do not consider it appropriate to use twisted logic about Jesus and the Crucifixion. It is truth in the Quran and more respectable news for Jesus a.s. in the Quran.
Christians do not realize that they are demonizing Jesus a.s. by making him die on the Cross. It is written in Old Testament that any one who dies on the tree (Meaning Cross) is a cursed person and cursed person, under the curse of God is far away from the Mercy of God Almighty. A cursed person is not a beloved of God. So the Christians want to prove that Jesus was a cursed person. That is very bad indeed.
Muhammad s.a.w.s. taught that Jesus was not cursed person at all and that he was not Crucified (meaning that he did not die on the Cross). He was put on the Cross and suffered very much the pains. But he survived death on Cross. He simply lost consciousness and appeared to all to be dead.
This was a great miracle for the sake of Jesus a.s. He was taken care of and later revived in the tomb. He walked 70 miles to Galilee and met his disciples in secret and spoke to them, showed them his wounds and took food from them. He was all alive, himself.
Jesus a.s. guided his friends (disciples) about his future plans. He was a condemned man in that land and could not appear in public. So they all planned as they planned for the best and Jesus a.s. migrated from that area towards east in search of the lost sheep of Israel as he had promised in the bibleNT.
This is the teaching of the Quran. It does not make Jesus a cursed person. The Christians, on the one hand, are making Jesus a son of God and a God. On the other hand they are making him a cursed person. They should learn the meaning of CURSE. CURSE is not a good thing.
Also according to the book of Deuteronomy, a false prophet will be killed. So Christians want to prove that Jesus was false. Christians should read the Bible more than non Christians. It seems they do not take interest in their books of faith i.e. Bible. With love for all, hatred for none, some news is presented above to please think over all these points. Wassalam (Peace).
Musalmaan masala,
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Ghulam wants to know when the Father ever called Jesus Son. On the mount of transfiguration, Matthew 17:5 “WHILE HE YET SPAKE, BEHOLD, A BRIGHT CLOUD OVERSHADOWED THEM: AND A VOICE OUT OF THE CLOUD, WHICH SAID, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED; HEAR YE HIM.”
There were no parachutes at that time which would have caused somebody to float in the cloud and make that statement.
According to the quran, the Holy Spirit is a different entity from Gabriel, who is an angel. Sura 70:4 “TO HIM THE ANGELS AND THE SPIRIT DESCEND-“. If both were the same beings, there would have been no need to differentiate between them. There are many verses where allah says it breathed its spirit into. Gabriel could not have been breathed into anyone or anything. While the Holy Spirit can be at many places all at once, Gabriel cannot.
Ghulam says he does not trust the Bible because of the many versions which are in circulation. If one were not to trust a book on account of its numerous versions, then the quran should be the first to be rejected. It has more versions than the Holy Bible and no two of them say exactly the same thing. I quoted the same verses from Arberry and Nahmud Yazid which were quite different. Everything about the quran, from its ‘revelation’ to compilation, strips it of any reliability.
Whoever the “enemy” of Jesus was, Ghulam is yet to show how he adversely affected the truth of the Good News that Jesus brought. I also know that Abu Sufyan was Muhammad’s mortal enemy and it was the slave of his wife who killed Hamza, Muhammad’s bouncer. His children would later make enormous contributions to expand Muhammad’s empire. Why is that enmity not counted as detrimental to the cause of Muhammadanism?
Jesus a.s. is not a cursed person as believed by the church. I believe that the cloud or voice of cloud called Jesus his son. I still have to know If God Almighty called him as son. Cloud is not God.
Gabriel is called the Holy Spirit. Other angels are just referred to as angels. They are not Holy Spirit. So they have to be mentioned separately.
Should not the Christians comment on how they see Jesus and we Muslims comment on how we see him?
Namelee it was nice reading your post. It seems Ghulam Sarwar has his knowledge about Christianity in knots because of the misinformation from the Koran regarding Christ.
He posts in an earlier post “Christians do not realize that they are demonizing Jesus a.s. by making him die on the Cross. It is written in Old Testament that any one who dies on the tree (Meaning Cross) is a cursed person and cursed person, under the curse of God is far away from the Mercy of God Almighty. A cursed person is not a beloved of God. So the Christians want to prove that Jesus was a cursed person” and now feels a little “remorse” and posts “Jesus a.s. is not a cursed person as believed by the church.”
Further he says “God is not cloud” he forgets that in the Exodus God moved as “pillar cloud and a pillar of fire”. I do not think that any man would survive the sight of the Glory of God. Way to go Ghulam!
Ghulam goes further and says”Also according to the book of Deuteronomy, a false prophet will be killed. So Christians want to prove that Jesus was false.” Fyki Christians NEVER HAVE CALLED CHRIST A PROPHET. Mohammed has.
Ghulam, Moses was the only person on Mount Sinai to speak to God BUT people below SAW AND HEARD. In Mohammed NO ONE SAW, HEARD AND FELT allah except that muslims “believe” what he told them he heard. This blind belief has not been challenged and when one does one is called hater and WRONG ANECDOTES from the Bible are given in defence.
Way to go Ghulam!
The commentary throughout this mockery are as ignorant and dishonest as those throughout Christ’s trial and crucifixion.
Ghulam Sarwar,
If you do not believe that God was the one who spoke in the cloud, were you the one who did so and do clouds speak where you are?
‘Gabriel’ is an archangel and is completely different from the Holy Spirit who was breathed into Mary, according to your quran.
In Hebrews 1:8, God actually refers to Jesus as God. It reads “BUT UNTO THE SON HE SAITH, THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: A SCEPTER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE SCEPTER OF THY KINGDOM”.
I do not need to remind you that even in its twisted form, the quran still says that Jesus will return as the righteous judge. Who else to judge humanity perfectly if not God Himself?
Two Purpose of Jesus : Man can with support of the GOD remain in the true path regardless of pain and death.
1) To understand the divinity of Jesus, we must look to GOD not Jesus.
It was not Jesus who became GOD which is impossible for Jesus or any human for that matter.
But it was GOD that became Jesus which is possible for GOD.
Why the humiliated death on the cross?
This is the fundamental reason for Jesus existance.
The humiliated death on the cross is a guidance to humans that it is humanly possible to remain true to the religion of GOD at the expense of ones own pride and life.
Jesus had a choice and yet he chose to be true to his religion.
This is the TRUE MEANING OF JIHAD.
2) Where humans failed the LAWs of GOD given to Moses.
The Jews implemented their laws GOD as given to Moses by crucifying Jesus.
But their implementation of the law was wrong. A prophet of GOD was crucified and killed according to the Law of MOSES.
Jesus preached that forgiveness, mercy and most importantly love is the new law.
What was Muhammad’s last words “O Allah! Forgive me, and bestow Your Mercy on me, and let me meet the companions.” (Bukhari)
This is another fundamental existance and purpose of Jesus.
The implementation of MOSES LAW by humans is at fault.
Only GOD can judge by GODs LAW. No human has the authority or knowledge to judge another human according to God’s law.
The new commandment by Jesus –
Love God with all your heart and soul.
Love each other as I have loved you.
According to the Quran:
When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: “Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me. (43:63, Yusif Ali)
FEAR ALLAH AND OBEY ME!!!
sounds confusing to me…
Don’t hesitate Jesus is Lord and save us all from Satan power. He showed his greatest love to the world on the cross. May the peace of the Lord be upon you.
Be Aware: Israelis and Muslims and also Christians need to realize that God said, “Isaiah 9:16
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” (That includes government leaders of all nations as well as religion leaders.)
Muslims cannot accept Pope Francis and the Vatican even to support Palestine on May 24-26, 2014; Popes and the Vatican make popes saints and statutes, and worship Mary and the saints instead of Yahweh-Jehovah, God also called Allah (the God.) As Muslims condemn and march against those who mock their prophet Muhammad, how much more will they forbid Pope Francis and the Vatican defiling
the word of God and continue to defile the Holy Land and lead to follow the popes & cardinals etc. instead of the truth of God’s written word in the Bible.
Prophet Muhammad was sent to UNDO deception through popes and the Roman Church; no Muslim that calls himself submitted to the will of God would allow the pope any authority over their land, “congregations” or holy places. God’s message
through Muhammad was, “Convey this message and if you convey it not, you have not conveyed His message at all. Say, O People of the Book, you
stand on nothing till you observe the Torah and the Gospel and all God sent down to you from your Lord.” (Qur’an 5:67-69; 42:14-16; 5:43-51 judge by
Torah” “Allah hates that you should make so much as an image of a gnat.” False religion must fall before truth can rule. Both faithful Jews and Muslims can join in protest against Pope Francis and the Vatican influence in their nation; and remember again that there is only one God and one law for all who would worship Him in truth. I pray we do this peacefully. God wants all to repent and be saved.
Marie Devine you seem to be quite angry against Pope Francis. Your diatribe seems to be meandering along lines that are usual. “Popes are bad” “Rome is the devil” “Christians are idol worshippers” etc., etc.,
Do tell me madam, when muslims visit the grave of Mohammed and the graves of muslim saints do they venerate or worship these people? I ask this because you say Christians “worship” Mary, WHICH THEY DO NOT, they venerate her as they do the saints.
Further you say they make statues. Christians DO NOT ADORE OR WORSHIP statues (that is why there is no Christian uproar when a statue is desecrated or destroyed) unlike Muslims who take to the streets if the Koran is burnt. (Does this mean muslims WORSHIP THE KORAN?
Also, remember Christ said He is the image & likeness of God. “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” Does this mean that God broke his own commandment when THE WORD BECAME FLESH.
I suggest you place your doubts about the popes and Pope Francis to rest and let the man go and mend things in a place which is in ferment without trouble.
Ghulam Sarwar, just like you take so much trouble to find out things about Christianity and Christ and then give your own spin to them (like the Christ in Kashmir & other spins), I would love you to make your own sojourn into the OT & NT & find out for yourself all that I have posted, but please no spin this time around. Just the facts.
Waiting…..
Osama, you have written some good things. But, respectfully, I have to give my view about your following words:
@Osama:
2) Where humans failed the LAWs of GOD given to Moses.
The Jews implemented their laws GOD as given to Moses by crucifying Jesus.
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Well, the Jews did not act on the law of Moses at all. They were not acting on the law of Moses a.s. They were all spoiled high level Jewish leaders sunk in many kinds of vice.
How can you say that they acted on the law of Moses a.s. to Crucify Jesus?
You are trying to say that the Jewish leaders were right and Jesus was wrong. That he was preaching something different, quite against the law of Moses a.s. That is not right. Jesus a.s. was trying to guide the Jewish leaders to the proper implementation of the law, the same law.
Why Jesus turned the tables when he entered the great synagogue in Jerusalem? Did he not accuse the clergy of misusing the law and doing wrong things in the temple under the cover of the law? Jesus a.s. blamed the leaders for the misuse of religion. It is all in the Bible NT.
You are trying to tell me that Jesus was guilty of some serious mistake and the Jews acted on the law and tried to Crucify Jesus. That is not right.
The reality is that by the actions and preaching of Jesus a.s., the Jewish leaders were trapped and exposed as corrupt leaders.
The leaders, even approached Mother Mary to calm down her son (It is mentioned in the Quran.) But she refuse to indulge and referred them to Jesus a.s. (Chapter 19)
They were all in much trouble and they were blood thirsty to get hold of Jesus and kill him in some way.
You are justifying their deed (of Crucifixion) and giving them license that they were justified and it was Jesus who was really at fault. I cannot believe you. Please read the Bible NT and decide, in favor of Jesus or his enemies. thank you.
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@: Where humans failed the LAWs of GOD given to Moses…..
If the humans failed the laws, it was their fault, not the fault of Jesus a.s. He was working according to the law and wanted to re-establish that law. The leaders did not want that. They did not want Jesus to do that because it would end their hegemony, their false pride. That is why they prepared to kill Jesus. He did not want to die, specially not on the Cross. His life was more useful to the world. He was teaching repentance to his flock.
But the enemies cut short his life mission in that land and he had to depart to a better place where he knew he had other sheep to look after….
My last few words: Please note that the Jews did not implement the laws given to Moses a.s. If they had been acting on the laws, there would not have been any conflict and no need of Jesus too.
Muhammed didnt know his fate nor the fate of his follwers, Jesus says I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NAN COMRS TO THE FATHER EXCEPTTHROGH ME. THERE IS NO OTHER NAME GIVEN AMONG MEN BYWHICH WE MUST BE SAVED EXCEPT THE NAME JESUS. Pls follow him & stop using your small brain to analyse God’s Word . you need the services of the HOLY SPIRIT TO DO THAT
If we stop analyzing God’s word, how would we know, what He is saying?
the Word of God are mysteries, the Bible says they are foolishness to them that perish. Does certain words in the Bible not beat your imagination? they are LIFE & SPIRIT. you need the Spirit of God to illuminate His Word before a carnal mind can understand. you know why you have spent so much time searching for the truth? its because you do not know that there is a vacuum in every man put in him by his Creator Himself & only the Creator Himself can fill that vacuum at salvation by His Spirit after COMPULSORILY surrendering to the LORDSHIP of JESUS CHRIST who became a curse when He bore your sins & my sins at crucifiction; the sacrificial lamp. That is why God highly exhaulted Him & gave Him a name above every other name that at the name of Jesus every knee bows & every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord. There is no other name given among men by which we must be saved except His name. Bowing down to the Lordship of Jesus puts an end to all your searches & confusion; that is why genuinely born again christians do not search for the truth anymore because they have found it eureka! when you give your life to Christ, you experience a heavenly peace that surpasses all understanding freely, the Holy Spirit comes in to dwell in you & starts revealing the truths of the kingdom to you; so sweet. now you can confidently say Abba Father, my Daddy, a very personal & enjoyable experience you can never let go of. You also become bold & you start expiriencing a loving peaceful life wanting everyone to come & taste. you continually wake up with new songs in your mouth. you can ask all the jihadists who are now pastors. its an encountet with your maker in total surrender to the one who died for you & gave you the privilledge of sonship & an eternal inheritance as joint heirs. i am talking life here & not literature. this i have experiened like everyone who is born again. the Bible says ” how can you excape if you neglect so great a salvation?”
the peculiarity of the birth of Jesus makes it clear that He is not a son like a human; so God does not have a son like humans since He did not marry but through His Spirit Jesus was born.God acknoledged His sonship when He said to the hearing of all present “THIS IS MY ONLY BELOVED SON IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED, LISTEN TO HIM. It is very clear. At salvation too, the Spirit of God also bears witness with our spirits that we are now children of God as is written in the Bible. Now we can confidently say Abba Father; that’s why genuinely born again christians can comfortably call God DADDY. can you comfortably call God ‘My Daddy as a child’? if u cant, then you do not have a personal relationship with God & you need to be saved through the only way; CHRIST who died using His blood to save us. remember, there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood that is why Christ made the perfect & final sacrifice for my sins & your sins. no more continous sacrifice as in the old testment
Zia Shah, problem is muslims are not “analyzing God’s Word” they are doubting that the Word (Christ) is God’s Word made Flesh, and saying that God who can do anything CANNOT become man to show human kind the RIGHT WAY to Him, rather they believe a man who does not know the way to God himself CAN show it.
If virgin birth or being born without a father is a criteria to be the son of God for Jesus, then Adam has more claim to being the son of God since, according to the Bible, he was born without a father AND without a mother!
@Ashok Saldanha: “saying that God who can do anything CANNOT become man to show human kind the RIGHT WAY to Him,”
Dear Ashok, we Muslims believe that God can do everything that He likes, that He wishes. That is written in the Quran. And from Bible and Quran, we can find out what He likes and what He does not like to do.
Can you please show me from the Bible (New or Old Testament or Quran) that God wanted to become a man to show human kind the RIGHT WAY to Him..??
Never has God done it before in the history of mankind and He never does such a thing to become a man to teach the men. God has angels, employed for guidance of mankind in the past, present and future. That is His way (Sunnat). Please do not invent a new way and do not become God yourself and do not tell God what he should do…. Thank you, I hope I have passed the message with all love and good wishes for all Christian friends and my love for Jesus a.s. and his mother and father,, and his friends,, wassalam
As far at this article is concerned, we are focused on trying to discus the truth about Jesus in the Bible NOT the Jesus in the Holy Quran.
According to the Holy Quran, Adam (as) made a mistake and was forgiven for that by Allah. Prophets are incapable of commiting sins (i.e. disobey Allah’s commandment knowingly) because they are purified by Allah and they are selected primarily due to their devotion and obedience to Allah. However, as human beigns they can make mistakes.
Ghulam Sarwar, I will answer your question by asking another question. What do you understand by WORD BECAME FLESH? Secondly, there are umpteen prophesies about the coming of the Christ in the OT. Thirdly, Christ Himself speaks in a parable about the son of a landowner being killed after his father had sent representatives before. Fourthly, what & whom would you believe? WITNESSES AFTER THE FACT or someone who wrote about this 650 years later who is the ONLY WITNESS to whatever he wrote.
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Ah! the muslim perspective….
In other words Zia Shah, you do not have a reply and neither does Islam, to the pertinent points raised by Aihanu.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You let Mirza Ghulam Rabbi speak 65 times without any reason and now come out with a gem by calling the Resurrection “resuscitation”.
Dear Ashok Saldanha, Your new questions:
What do you understand by WORD BECAME FLESH? Secondly, there are umpteen prophesies about the coming of the Christ in the OT. Thirdly, Christ Himself speaks in a parable about the son of a landowner being killed after his father
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Ashok, I would like to answer all your questions and I understand your questions (partially). It would have been better if you had posted the actual text from the Bible NT King James Version. Then it would have been easy to answer everything because those words which were spoken by Jesus a.s. cannot be wrong, cannot be useless….
You are welcome to present the text from Bible NT with its reference and I will reply forthwith. Wassalam.