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This post was originally made by Ghulam Ahmed Rabbi
Author: Imam I. H. Kauser, National President of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Australia
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1. Why crucifixion?
Jews wanted him to be killed through crucifixion, so they can prove that Jesus is not a beloved of God, rather the curse of God is on him. Jews could have killed him easily as they were in hundreds of thousands in number and very strong. If killing should have been their desire, they could have done it easily. Just like they paid thirty pieces of silver to one of his disciples, if they would have paid him more, he might have done this service too. But they wanted him to be crucified so they can prove that he is not from God, rather he is an imposter and a fabricator. If he was from God, then God will definitely save him. May be that was the reason that Jesus was so reluctant to suffer on the cross.
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2. Who wanted him to be crucified?
Two of Jesus’ disciples commented (in Luke 24:20) as follows:
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. (Luke 24:20)
They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the Governor said what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying Let him be crucified…. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (Matt 27: 22-25)
3. Crucifixion was demanded by the Jews
When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. (John 19:6)
The Jews answered him (Pilate), We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (John 19:7)
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Suggested Reads:
Christianity: A Journey From Facts to Fiction
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4. One incident and many aspects?
- Romans took it as punishment of sedition.
- The Jews made it as a punishment of blasphemy.
- Jesus considers it a killing, when one of his disciples betrayed him.
- Christians think a sacrifice presented for our salvation.
Who is right?
5. Why Jesus was hiding?
That’s why the Jews paid thirty pieces of silver to Judas giving them the necessary information about Jesus.
…Neither go into town, nor tell it to any in the town. (Mark 8: 26)
And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. ((Mark 8: 30)
6. Jesus’ prayers and supplications to be saved from crucifixion:
Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. (John 26: 36)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. (John 26: 39)
…. He went away again, and prayed the second time and prayed, saying ……and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (John 26:42-44)
7. God always hears his prayers and his prayers were heard
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)
8. An Angel was sent to strengthen Jesus?
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22: 43-44)
9. Pilate delays in judgment
Pilate intentionally delayed in giving his verdict and did not deliver his judgment until and unless he was sure that due to the Sabbath, Jesus would be on the cross for only a few hours. Jesus a thirty-three years young person was on the cross for only few (3-6) hours.
10. Pilate’s complete favor to Jesus
Pilate was in complete favor of Jesus, considering him innocent, and for his wife’s dream, was trying to save his life. That’s why Pilate wanted to use his special right to free one person, but the Jews did not let him do it.
Pilate said unto them, whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas or Jesus…. But the chief Priests and the elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. The Governor answered and said unto them, whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said Barabbas. Matt 27: 17-21)
11. Pilate’s wife sees a dream to save Jesus
When he sat down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.” (Matt 27:19)
Why was this dream was against the purpose of the advent of Jesus, to give his life on the cross? Her dream should have been that crucify him immediately. Let him finish his work. But her dream was against it. Although her dream was so special that it was mentioned in the Bible.
12. Pilate finds him “Not guilty”
… Pilate … he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person. (Matt 27:24)
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Click to read Prophet Confucius: His testimony for one God and against Pauline Dogma
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13. Earthquake, eclipse & a storm – A sign of God’s disliking & anger
An earthquake, eclipse of Sun and a Storm, all three occurred just after the crucifixion is a clear sign of God’s anger.
Now from sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. (Matt 27:45)
…the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. (Matt 27: 51)
14. Pilate marveled
And Pilate marveled if he were already dead. (Mark 15: 44)
When Pilate was informed about the death of Jesus on the cross, he marveled at hearing it. We know that Pilate was the most experienced person in this field; who may have experienced hundreds of crucifixions in his time. That is why; he knew very it well that a 33 years, unmarried young person shouldn’t die in few hours, while the other two thieves (elder than him) were still alive after the crucifixion.
15. The other two (thieves) next to Jesus were still alive so they broke their legs
Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. (John 19: 32)
16. Blood and Water – a great sign of Jesus’ life
When a soldier pierced a spear in Jesus’ side, blood and water gushed out from his body, with full pressure, is a sign and a witness that Jesus’ heart was still pumping and he was alive
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (John 19:34)
Why coming of blood and water is so important that the narrator of the incident specially describes:
And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. (John 19:35)
The person has put all stress on the truth of this witness, because of the great importance of it.
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross: http://t.co/ohKLP6hTHl
— O J DEEN (@JAMALDEEN2010) March 30, 2013
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17. Why the soldiers checked Jesus alive or dead, piercing him a spears. What was the criteria, then to recognize?
The concept that one of the soldiers pierced Jesus a spear to check him, either he is alive or not, does not make any sense until and unless there was really a way of checking this way. Piercing Jesus a spear or some other way? What was that? How did they do it? Because one of the soldiers pierced a spear in Jesus’ body. Not to check his life or death. Otherwise they should have done the same with other two also.
18. Jesus legs were not broken
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they broke not his legs: (John 19:33)
19. Jesus was not buried in the grave
The Jewish custom for the last thousands of years was to bury the deceased in the ground. Because the disciples knew the predictions, which were made earlier by Jesus Christ, they kept Jesus’ body in a sepulcher. If they had buried him in a grave, he would have died. But his disciples placed him in a roomy “Sepulcher?” Rather then burying him in the ground according to the Jewish custom and traditions.
20. Neither Jews nor Christians are sure about Jesus’ death on the cross
There was a very strong earthquake, a storm and an eclipse of sun just after the crucifixion of Jesus, that made all Jews and Romans run away from the sight. That is why; neither Jews nor the Christians are sure about the death of Jesus on the cross but a gesture.
21. The stone on the sepulcher was removed
(For a spirit, does not need to remove the stone)
Jesus forbade Mary Magdalene to touch him.
Touch me not. (John 20:17)
Why?
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Click to read: Prophet Zoroaster : A Witness against Pauline Dogma
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22. Jesus said, “ He has not ascended yet. What did he really mean?
Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God. (John 20:17)
What are the real meanings of ascension here, when Jesus said to Mary “I am not yet ascended to my Father.”
Certainly, it was understood and very clear without any doubt that Jesus had not ascended yet, while he was standing just in front of her. Then why Jesus said that he was not ascended yet?
23. Mary did not react, when she saw Jesus alive. Why?
24. Disciples were terrified seeing Jesus. (Luke 24: 39)
25. Jesus ate food, in the presence of his disciples.
… he said unto them, have ye here any meet? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. (Luke 24:41-42)
Jesus saith unto them, come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who are thou? Knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise. (John 21: 12-13)
A spirit does not need any food but our physical body, which becomes weak after a while, without having food. Why Jesus needed food, if he had gone back to his original body of God.
For forty days he was meeting his disciples to assure them that he was alive and now going to the lost sheep of house of Israel, as he promised and assigned by God like Jonah was assigned to the Nin-e-viets.
…many infallible proofs being seen of them for forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. (Acts 1:3)
26. Jesus never showed himself to the Jews (who challenged him) after he was saved from the accursed death of cross.
27. How come Jesus never said “I was dead and now I am alive?”
28. Jesus’ prediction about his sign to be very similar to the sign of Jonah
Jesus predicted his sign would be similar to the sign of Jonas.
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall be no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s bally; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt 12:39-40)
This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. For as Jonas was a sign unto the Nin-e-vites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation…for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Luke 11:29-32)
Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the bally of the fish three days and three nights. (Jonah 1:17)
And Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 2:10)
And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it preaching that I bid thee. And Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh. (Jonah 3:1-3)
- Jonas entered into the belly of whale alive– Jesus died on the cross and entered in the heart of the earth dead.
- Jonas remained alive in the bally of whale. – Jesus Remained dead.
- Jonas came out alive bodily. – Jesus came out in spirit.
- Jonas stayed three days and three nights in the bally of whale. – Jesus one day and two nights.
- Jonas went back to his people. – Jesus went back to heaven. Without fulfilling the promise which he made earlier, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matt 15:24)
Jesus should have gone to the lost tribe of Israel, as Jonas went to his people “Nin-e-vites”, not to heaven.
29. Appearance of an Angel, saying, why, you looking for a living person into the dead.
And it come to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seeketh ye the living among the dead. (Luke 24:4-5)
And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. (Luke 24:23)
30. The stone of tomb was removed
It was a physical body not a spiritual one:
And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. (Luke 24: 2)
31. Jesus’ prayers against his death on the cross
Jesus prayed again and over again, saying, O God, take this cup away from him. Why he prayed against the purpose of his advent?
“And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me….” (Mark 14:36)
If his escape from the death on the cross was not possible then why Jesus was praying for it? Didn’t he know?
32. Jesus awakening his disciples, requesting for special prayers for his safety
“…saith to his disciples, sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder…. And began to be sorrowful and very heavy… And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and said unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray…” (Matt 26: 36-41)
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Click to read: Prophet Buddha: A Witness against Pauline Dogma
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33. Jesus’ in flesh and bones after he had risen
Jesus showing his hands and feet to his disciples, proving and arguing them, that he was alive bodily.
“They were terrified and affrighted and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts are in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see for a spirit hath no flesh and bones, as you see me have…. he shewed them his hands and his feet.” (Luke 24:37-40)
34. Why Jesus needed the body (Flesh) again?
35. Jesus’ wounds- a great sign of his survival
Jesus through showing his wounds to his disciples was proving that he was alive bodily:
The other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the Lord. But he (Thomas) said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of his nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe… Then he said to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: be not faithless, but believing. (John 20: 25-27)
A Spirit can’t have the wounds. It means he was alive bodily.
Why Jesus addressed Thomas “not to be faithless but believing? Jesus advised Thomas to have faith, but in which and what? Yes! Faith in the fulfillment of the promise of God saving Jesus from the accursed death on the cross which Jews had designed for him.
Why Jesus had a physical body after he had risen from the dead? Why this physical body still had the signs of wounds? Now there should have been nothing but his soul and spirit? Did he want to take these wounds along with him to the heavens to show them to God? If that is the case, then, we know very well, that these wounds alone did not kill him, but many other things including the cross. If he needed the proofs of his service to be presented to God, then he should have taken all his wounds including, the signs of flogging, beating, hitting, kicking, spitting and the cross (piece of wood) on which he was crucified.
36. Jesus prayers and God’s response: (Hebrews 5:7)
37. Hungry Jesus, asking for food
He ate fish and a honeycomb.
38. Jesus’ shroud: -“Shroud of Turin” a sign that Jesus was alive.
“And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth.” Matt 27:59)
39. Using 100 pounds of aloes, myrrh and some other spices on Jesus’ body, as the manner of Jews. Whether Jews use 100 pound of myrrh, aloes and some other spices at their burial? Or there were some special arrangements were made for Jesus’ safety. Nicodemus, who was a physician and a disciple of Jesus, made this special arrangement before the crucifixion of Jesus:
And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to burry. (John 19:39-40)
40. Jesus said “I am going to ‘Galilee’ before the disciples.”
41. An error made by the Jews: – “….the last error shall be worse than the first.” (Matt 27:64)
Jews accepted that they had made an error. What kind of error had they made? Now they were afraid not to make another error. Did they make another error? Yes! They did.
42. Why Jews bribed the soldiers?
Jews bribed large money) the soldiers who had been assigned to guard the sepulcher.
“And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken council, they gave large money unto the soldiers.”(Matt 28:12)
They bribed the soldiers to hide the fact. What was that?
43. Empty tomb of Jesus (the sepulcher), is a great Mystery. Jesus body was not found in the sepulcher.
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Mother Mary wants all Christians to be Muslims! The Doctrine of immaculate conception
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44. Jews were afraid of a conspiracy: –
Jews were sure, even ahead of time that his disciples will definitely announce, “Jesus had been ascended to heaven” as it is mentioned:
“…Pharisees came together unto Pilate, saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, after three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulcher be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal his him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead.”(Matt 27: 63-64)
45. Jesus’ crucifixion- a test of Jews
The crucifixion was made criteria for Jesus’ truth. The Jews at the time of crucifixion said: – “…save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.” (Matt 27:40)
“Let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.”(Matt 27:42)
“He saved others; himself he cannot save.”(Matt 27:42)
46. Could Jesus save his life? If he is God then perhaps he could. If he could then it is a suicide.
But, he was constantly pleading to God the Father for the bitter cup to be taken away.
47. Pilate’s complete favor for Jesus; _Pilate; the Governor tried his best to save Jesus’ life, because of his wife’s dream.
48. Jesus never demanded “Crucify me”, but the Jews demanded from the Pilate, “Crucify him- crucify him.”
“Then all say unto him, Let him be crucified.” (Matt 27:22)
49. Jesus defended his case in the court, argued with the Jews, and refuted their accusations. Jesus never said, “Hurry up crucify me, for I have come, just for this purpose, although I am already 4000 years late, going by the Biblical calendar and time of Adam and Eve.”
50. Jesus never went to the cross happily, but in miserable situation.
51. Who compelled Jesus to be crucified and why?
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St Paul The 13th Apostle? Do Read
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52. Jesus said: “For salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22) What it means? And why only for the Jews?
53. Crucifixion – a killing in the eyes of Jesus.
Why go ye about to kill me? (John 7:19)
But you seek to kill me. (John 8:40)
For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. (Mark 9:31)
54. Jesus complained to God, why have you forsaken me? It means, God for his safety made a promised.
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, My God, why have hast thou forsaken me? (Matt 27:46)
55. In Jewish law, the “Crucifixion” was an accursed death”-
“…for he that is hanged is accursed of God” (Deut 21: 23)
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for ud: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.” (Galatians 3: 13)
56. Why the disciples of Jesus, when they met him in Galilee, still had some doubts? “…Some doubted” (Matt 28:17)
What kind of doubts and what about?
Did they have doubts about Jesus being alive and saved from the accursed death of cross or some thing else?
57. Jesus said, “Even so every good tree bringth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringth forth evil fruit.” (Matt 7:17)
How come that this heinous crime of persecuting him mercilessly brought such a good result?
58. Making his arrest is a greater sin
“Jesus answered (to Pilate); He that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.” (John 19:11)
How a greater sin can bring salvation to the world. Sin means, being disobedient to God, breaking His laws and commandments.
“…the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. (Matt 26:45)
59. Jesus accursed Judas for his betrays.
Jesus said, “…but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.” (Matt 26:24)
But, it was Judas who made the salvation possible. If he had not been born, there would not have been any salvation for us.
Jesus said, “It had been good … if he had not been born.”
Why the contradiction?
60. Who can kill God? God is Holy. Nobody can kill God. God is eternal and immortal, free from the suffering of death. He is always alive. He is out of the approach of the human hands. Sinners’ hands cannot reach Him or harm Him.
If Jesus died for three days and three nights, then he is no longer eternal and hence not co-equal to God the Father.
61. Why Jesus (if he was a God) let the Jews and Romans disgrace Him and do all kind of insulting and persecution? What “The Most High” means and “God is Great.” God is not supposed to be humble and show not only humility, but actually disgrace at the hands of His enemies.
62. Jesus never mentioned that the purpose of his coming was to give his life on the cross.
63. Salvation through keeping the commandments of God:
Jesus never mentioned that people’s salvation is in believing Jesus’ death on the cross. Rather he promised that the heaven’s eternal life is in following and obeying the commandments of God. As it is in the Book of Matthew:
And behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt 19:16-17)
64. If salvation through crucifixion, then the credit goes to Jews, Romans & Judas
They are the Jews who demanded from the Roman Governor Pilate to put him on the cross. And Judas betrayed Jesus and made his arrest possible; otherwise Jesus was hiding in the garden of Gethsemane. Chief Priests paid thirty pieces of silver to Judas for informing the authorities for his arrest.
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Jesus wasn’t born on December then why is Christmas celebrated on 25th?
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65. A soldier saw Jesus walking, informs the chief priest
“The watch” who saw (Jesus and his disciples meeting and going) all these things, told the Chief Priest in the city.
Now when they were going (Jesus and his disciples), behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. (Matt 28: 11)
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Watch now! Govt of India Documentary on Jesus in Kashmir!
It has tonnes of evidence put together in a very constructive way.
Day by day we are moving towards uncovering the mask of the false dogma of Christianity.
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65 Reasons to Believe #Jesus Did Not Die on the #Cross
Read more: http://t.co/dtcpARiHvd— LajnaIma’illahCanada (@LajnaCanada) January 25, 2015
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Categories: CHRISTIANITY, Easter, Highlight, Religion and Science
Readers who are interested in the real life of Jesus Christ should read this book:
Christianity: A Journey from Facts to Fiction
by Mirza Tahir Ahmad
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/index.html
Conclusion Jesus didn’t die on the cross what was the need to roll the stone away, if he had resurrected? The reason stone was rolled because his physical body which required food (Luke 24.36) could not go out without any help. Accept this man who clarified these issues for us and gave us great news, his name is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and he was the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community. You wait for Jesus to come back again vain. He is dead and buried in Kashimir, India.
OK, so all historians, even atheists, confirm the ‘historical Jesus’ – when he lived, what happened to him, that he died at times of Pontius Pilat (this is by the way the reason why this guy is mentioned in the christian credo, since it affirms the tight and verified relationship with the general history), they only argue about what happened later, this is where faith plays role…
Suddenly, after 19 centuries, there comes one genius called Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, who is not even a scholar nor a historian, and claims all these people were wrong…?
oh, how convincing…
But, he put forward all the evidence and some of it is right here.
Historical Jesus does not mean that he has to die on the cross and be resurrected. For example, President Thomas Jefferson saw him as a great teacher and took out all the hype out of his Bible.
You cannot use one part of the Bible as your guidance and disregard the rest as a bullshit. Sorry, either you accept its truth or not.
Noone can prove that a specific part is correct while another one is not, in fact all the resources that christianity relies on claim its authenticity.
And it states CLEARLY, in many places that he died: every gospel describes Jesus’s death and placing Him in a grave. And then the resurrection. And then the letters of apostles confirming it all, and then writings of Church Fathers… there is a long history of consistent books, all origins from eye-witnesses.
I can’t understand how you can read gospels and in the same time claim loudly they are not saying what they are saying… are you blind or simply don’t you want to see?
…
… and why are you chopping off relevant comments? you claim you know Bible and quote it back an forth, why can’t someone else quote Quran?
You can quote the Quran, but, please stick to the subject. Did Jesus die or not on the cross? How trust worthy are stories from 2000 years ago is the question?
You can tell us what the Quran says about Jesus’ death or lack thereof!
Peace!
My Brother, I am not here to defend who Jesus Christ is Because He has already did that in the book that was written about Him, Neither would I venture or try to prove that He died on the cross.
Furthermore, He did not take the time to write a book to profit thereby,as some people do because He is God Almighty and comes what may, there is nothing you nor anyone can do to change that.
There is I would bring to your attention that you had conveniently left out in referring to Jesus’ prayer when He prayed to His Father “if it be possible Father let this cup be pass from me” you missed it completely Brother! You forget the part He said “Never the less” not My will but Thy will (praying to the Father) notice also He prayed this three times (Mark 14:32-41).
It strikes me that you conveniently left this out of the 65 reason Jesus did not die on the cross.This is just one one example that you left. You also tried to venture to some how compare the life of Jesus Christ with that of the Prophet Jonah, here is my take when I examine the life of Jesus Christ in comparison to Jonah.
(Coming back to that, a little about myself) I am 50 years old originally from Jamaica, my highest level of education is GED and that I got when I came to this great country in 2002, however if I should grade your work on the comparison you made with the life of both Jesus Christ and Jonah I would give you F. Based on how I tried to put together this response you could tell yes? But 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
One day very soon my Brother this same Jesus you and I and everyone else will see Him coming back (even those who pierce Him Revelation 1:7) to give everyone their just reward and like I said before there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
I hope and pray you will open your heart and mind to Him. Peace.
Dear Ronald Ashley, you have tried to make a lot of points and in trying to explain or refute your assertions, we will need to create another longish article.
So, I propose a short solution.
You wrote:
Now, St. Paul thought that Jesus, may peace be on him, would come back within the life time of the generation alive then, but scores of generations have passed and we are still waiting and the credulous Christians continue to hope and believe.
You say that you are 50 years old. I am 52. Let us set up a time frame, which may be possible within our life time.
Let us say that if he does not come back in person, in 30 years and you are alive, you will become a Muslim and if he does come back and I am alive, I will become a Christian or whatever Jesus tells me to do.
Referring Mike Wyatt comments, “My God would never curse anyone.The thought of cursing and damning is foreign to me. …”
Amazing isn’t it! Mike you don’t even know that this is one of fundamental Pauline (present day Christianity) dogmas that Jesus dies an accursed death to redeem you from sins? Yours gods do run their businesses on curse.
That is the problem that’s why I said it is useless to debate or defend Pauline dogmas. They are just man fabricated set of lies.
Always remember man-made fabrication has a definite age.
@Ahmed Qureshi: where did you learn that christians believe that Jesus CURSED death…?
Far far from truth: He simply and quietly conquered it, by resurrecting
and this is not anyone’s doctrine or theory, but words directly from the Bible
Your choice it so believe them or not, but these words are there and have been since the beginning
Alexandra!
So you don’t believe that Jesus died an accursed death on cross for redemption of sins? If so is the case, Congratulations! you are no more a Christian!
I responded to Mike comments that Christian god(s) is unaware of curse. Whilst it is totally wrong to say so because curse of God is inevitable in Christian doctrines; and according to Paulism/Christian beliefs, Jesus did sacrifice to take that curse on his shoulder.
My brother, you made mention that Paul taught that Jesus Christ was coming back in his (Paul) life time true did you take he did not presents this as a hard and fast doctrine.
You also mention ” but scores of generations have passed and we are still waiting and the credulous Christians continue to hope and believe”.
What if you have took the time to look at 2 peter 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” and presents but side of the argument. Peace
hard and fast doctrine!!!!
A new stuff to know. This thread is very informative indeed.
Brother Zia Shah, seeing you are the only one who choose to reply to my quest I wished to draw your attention to on of the 65 reason Jesus Christ did not died on the cross.
This made mention that 1000 years before Jesus #19. Christ came to earth the Jews were burying their dead’s in the ground instead of a cave, this is absolute lie and that is one of the the Hole in the 65 reasons.
My Bible tells me in the book of St. John 11 that Jesus Christ raised Lazarus from the dead his body was laid in a Cave with a stone at the mouth of the Cave. And this was days before He died on the Cross.
Be honest Here, Is it because there is no reference of the Historical event recorded in the Holy Qur’an why you actually refuse to believe?
My Brother Zia Shah
Let me, if you will permit me to mention #52. Jesus said: “For salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22) What it means? And why only for the Jews?
Have you looked Brother’s carefully at the statement and quotation from the Holy Bible and analyze it before something is said. Take for instance the passage quoted above, when I am looking at the Holy Scriptures and don’t fully comprehend a given text I starts at the beginning of the chapter in question through to the end to get the full analysis of it (I implore you to do the same) before before coming to any conclusion. Here is what I think this text is saying in Short,
St. John 4:22, You [Samaritans] do not know what you are worshiping [you worship what you do not comprehend]. We do know what we are worshiping [we worship what we have knowledge of and understand], for [after all] salvation comes from [among] the Jews. (initially God Almighty has entrusted the Jews to Be the ones to tell the world of His love. To wrap this up, Pleas read St.John 3:16-17 Salvation is “not of the Jews only”. Peace
What a totally confused thread. A mish mash of hashed misrepresentations.
Jesus was not just a historical figure a historical fact,and because He lived 2000 doesn’t means our recollection of him us unreliable. The scholarship and the learning has never stopped and the faith and the passing from one generation to another has had continuity. Even the debate between Protestants and Catholics has mellowed and we find more to agree upon than disagree upon. Our Brothers the Jewish people we respect because out of the Hebrew traditions grew the Christian faith.
This is our strength.There is a continuous unbroken thread that becomes deeper and stronger.
The bits that Muhammad couldn’t get his head around about the Judaeo Christian prophecies and the journey of 4000+ years he just edited out and then cut and pasted his own version of the truth.Then during his epileptic fits in a cave, which he called visions, this became his guiding fiction melding together stuff of his own invention.Scary stuff.
If ever there was a reason to live and a reason to die it would be in the strength we draw from the life of Jesus.
It is good to skim and scan over this rubbish and know this unreflective guiding fiction people carry around in their heads. Blinded by the light of the Truth they have to concoct their own mixtures and drink them.
Immunized from the Truth. They have taken the antibiotics which screens out the real Jesus and are promoting some watered down prophet historical figure and then buttressing their deceptions with wonky interpretations. Thank goodness this little backwater communication called the Muslim Times is not in the mainstream of debate. Its being suitably given treatment it deserves.
Jesus Died and Rose again He is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. This dynamic relationship goes way way beyond the egotistical god .
Anything that we say on this topic may offend the Christian friends. All signs point to the fact that Jesus did not die on the Cross. His death on the cross was invented by a person to use it for the redemption of sin. Whose sin? The sin of mankind or only that wicked generation??
Whatever Paul taught, we Muslims cannot digest. He was an enemy of Jesus. He had not walked with Jesus for a single day. He had killed some followers of Jesus. Now Paul is the witness of his own conversion.
Even Jesus (a.s.) had never predicted that Paul will convert and become a friend.
Paul says Jesus appeared to him. We do not believe him. Jesus did not appear to any of his true disciples to tell them that he had appeared to Paul and Paul has become a friend. If there is any such thing in the Bible, I request the Christian friends to present to us please. Otherwise forget Paul or Saul of Tarsus.
How come Paul became a most senior leader of the lot. He took the followers on a wrong path altogether. He made the Christians to take up a defeatist attitude, even making Jesus a cursed person. The present day Christians are swallowing that pill of curse happily. But curse is not a good thing. A cursed person is away from the Mercy of God Almighty.
Real curse is the curse of God. The curse of the people has no value, no meaning. The gospels do not speak of any curse or atonement. Even the four gospels are not the word of God. But still they describe the life story and struggle of Jesus. The gospels are more reliable than the later additions (letters) of Paul.
The old testament is attached with the New Testament against the teaching of Jesus a.s. Jesus had told not to put new wine in old bottles. So why is New Testament tied up with Old Testament (OT)?? We know the reasons. Anyhow:
in OT, it is said that any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person. Jesus a.s. knew that. His enemies (Old time Jews) knew that. That is why they wanted to kill Jesus on the cross to prove that he was cursed and not from God.
Jesus, on the other hand, knew that and did not want to die on the Cross. He was not afraid of death. But he did not want to die on the Cross. That is why he prayed to God Almighty to avoid the cup.
Jesus was the beloved of God. His prayer must be accepted and it was accepted. That is proved from the Quran and the BibleNT. In bible, it is told that an angel appeared to Jesus and was comforting him, meaning, angel told Jesus that his prayer to avoid the cup is accepted. The Quran is more clear on this subject.(Chapter 3)
Because Jesus a.s. knew that he will not die on the cross, and when all things appeared to go wrong, he yelled and reminded God Almighty in the words “Eli, Eli, why have you forsaken me??”
All things are pointing to the fact that Jesus had fainted and not died on the Cross. His legs were not broken. He was not formally buried and no burial rites were performed. He was laid in a big room like place and treated by a physician who had brought many herbs. The physician had brought a special ointment to cure (heal) the wounds of Jesus a.s.
Jesus a.s. was well looked after for a few hours and then removed to a more comfortable place before guards were put on the tomb. That was done to protect him from any further trouble. The stone was in place.
I am sure that the enemies of Jesus a.s. were not sure of his death. Otherwise, why they would put guard on the tomb?? The tomb was empty with the stone in place. They did not know that it was empty.
It was the major mistake of the opponents that they did not take charge of the body of Jesus when it was brought down from the Cross. That is where they lost everything.
It was a divine miracle for the sake of Jesus to survive the suffering on the Cross. The Christians are denying that miracle.
The enemies of Jesus wanted to kill him on the Cross. Jesus did not want to die on the Cross. We have to see who succeeded, the enemies or Jesus? We Ahmadi Muslims believe that the enemies of Jesus failed in their mission. That is what is told to us in the Quran. That is what we believe. The Christians friends are free to believe whatever they find better.
Ghulam Sarwar I have never hear such rubbish in all my life. Infact that would be insulting rubbish to put this misrepresentation alongside …
People who write such rubbish are like terrorists who take over a mall like in Kenya. The idea is to spread confusion and destabilize people. …
Mike, the fact that some people are terrorists and take innocent lives for their political gains is a separate topic from whether Jesus died on the cross or not.
We will take your strange mixing of the two as a compliment in disguise and your recognition that you have understood that Jesus did not die on the cross, because of these 65 reasons and now are looking for an exit.
We, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has condemned terrorism for 125 years, unequivocally and unconditionally and will continue to do this.
We recognize that every human life is sacred and there is no justification to kill any innocent human being.
Because if Muslim admit Jesus died on the cross and came to live again – it means Islam is false – Mohammed NOTHING compare to Jesus who died and rise again from the dead 🙂
@Mike
Ahmadi Muslims believe that Jesus Christ one of three gods according to Pauline dogmas and present Christianity, physically and spiritually is dead while Muhammad SAW is spiritually alive and will forever be alive. So Christianity is a dead religion and Islam is forever green.
Get your facts straight!
I think as far as the discussion with Mike about the divinity of Jesus goes, we have come to the point of ‘for you your religion and for me my religion’. Both sides have made their points. May Allah be our Guide always!
Zia Sahib!
wonderful comments. Mashallah!
In general, both Christianity and Islam are spiritually dead. God’s word is LIFE; not following GOD’S word is death. Jesus said, Let the dead bury the dead. Jesus said to live by every word out of the mouth of God. Most of that is in the Law of Moses, and in the Prophets; Jesus came to fulfill them, showing God is true, not to do away or destroy them.
God’s message to Muhammad was to Say, O People of the Scripture (600+AD), you stand on nothing till you observe the Torah and the Gospel. He was a prophet to Christians and Jews who, as now, only follow one part of the Bible (In actuality, they follow nothing. They make images, they don’t keep the 7th day Sabbath of no work as commanded; and they don’t keep God’s commanded holy memorial feasts with Sabbaths of no work around them. What we can follow, we should follow; and they do not seek holiness. Exodus 20; Leviticus 23, 26; Matthew 4:4, Deuteronomy 4:2.
Qur’an 5:68, 69; 5.43-51 judge by Torah; 42:13-16; 3:84-85
All are in judgment time and reaping their temporary rewards. God is hoping they will fear His eternal judgment and turn to obeying in truth while they still can.
The 65 questions from the writer of this article is out of a cowardised heart and idleness. he who lacket understanding should sort for it. the 65 article written, is out of ignorance and canality. Jesus came to die for you and me, he came to save mankind not the jew alone! and that is why the grace of God through His son Jesus christ still remain for you and me today. for the fact that Jesus died and resurected the third day, is not a yardstick for this article. i singulize those 65 article because it make no sence, rather heading toward tarnishing ones religious belief. The death of Jesus christ is universal! the great event that happened as of then can not be explained with a canal thinking, the explanation must be altered by the Holy spirit which is the conforter. I repeat again, whosoever lacketh understanding should sort for it!
Thank you John Orpaa, for your tall claims without offering any reasons or arguments.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. Resurrection is a claim never claimed for any human other than Jesus, may peace be on him and we have had billions of humans on our planet earth.
Peace.
it is wriiten of the old time that His legs shall not be brocken. Jesus died and went down to the heart of the earth i.e to hades and on the third day, he resurected! we can not compare Ourselves with Jesus Christ, He is God, in human form, we need to understand the basic of christ before lamenting. Jesus christ is incomparable, our perfect example.
John: Well, how can a God be a perfect example for us mortals? On the other hand a human prophet can be, as we believe the Prophet Mohammad, peace be on him, is.
i dont have to proof any thing zia shah, the Holy Bible made it clear. And that same Bible also said, many will fail to believe the gospel of Jesus christ. you are the type of category of people the Bible is refering to. Please take note:- if eventually you die in the state of deceptive and argumentative delima, you will go to hell fire! and if you miss this HEAVEN, you will CRY!
rafiq: well, all i want you to know is that christ came to this world in a divinely super natural way of which man can not explain, except inspired by the Holy spirit. christ is not to be compeared to any mortal that have ever lived, not even muhammad. Christ He beared the sin of the whole word. the bible said, “behold the LAMB of God which taketh the sins of the world!” this was the reason why God forsook Jesus christ when He was nailed on the cross, the sins of this world was great to the extent God turned His back to Jesus while on the cross.
John: Could God, the creator of all the worlds, not simply forgive us? Is Forgiveness not in his power? (I once asked this question to a priest and his answer was: ‘Yes, when I was studying in the seminary I had many sleepless nights on this very question’).
Reason can take us so far the crowning achievement of Reason is Faith. We Christians believe it is wise ding and God in His wisdom to rely and faith not hollow discussion from mere mortals.
Life around you should be convincing enough the Caterpillar that small wriggly thing has to die to go into a comatosed state in order to rise again.
The whole of nature is screaming at you death and resurrection. death and resurrection …
All the faithful Christians, I have a bridge to sell you also.
Name the city of your choice and have faith. You will be rich collecting toll. Have trust!
I had no intention of hurting any one’s feelings. But this is a discussion and I did not abuse any one. I had presented the teachings of Church as given in BibleNT. Nobody replied with references.
Mike is now talking about faith. We have that (faith) as a first step in Islam. Faith is necessary. But not a blind faith. And also faith must be followed by deeds.
Quran is full of such statements (verses): “Those who believe (mean have faith) and do good deeds….”
It is again Paul who taught: “You will be saved by faith alone..” What did he mean by that?? That Jesus died on the Cross for their sins?? He wanted every one to believe that??
Is it a war purporting to clariify that the Holy Quran is more authentic than the Holy Bible? Or, its a nother route to destroy christians pretexting that they attacked the Holy Quran? We respect your beliefs and logic to kniws that beliefs lack support of emperical evidence. We want respect, as we too respect Prophet Mohammed despite the owful stories associated with him.. Alla loves peace. Not incitement of others to turnish others beliefs. George Ssentongo
“I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” – attributed to Voltaire
I think mutual respect, friendship and even love does not preclude polite exchange of ideas.
We, never see eye to eye even with those who are closest to us, our parents, children and spouses.
No one is required to accept the other’s views willy nilly. A balance of respect and polite and rational communication is the key among humans. The Holy Quran also tells us:
Peace and Love
Yuo big liars there is no John 26 in the bible Joh ends in 21
Follow what you like. Follow a taxi or a bus and save yourself paying the fare.
If you are coming closer to God you can listen to His voice and see His face where ever you go. There are needs a plenty.
Searching for Truth is one thing but going out to the Poor and the Needy and helping others is surely the part I don’t here you stressing Marie.
You can warble on as much as you like on your perch but unless you have a balanced view you will topple off. I’m not going to any day soon be selling up everything and following you. Your not my guru
There is something about you Muslims, if some Christian writes anything about your Muhammed; even if he is right, you people will send Interpol after Him.You said that Jesus did not die as reported by the Bible, what then happened? where did He go? where is He now’ what is He doing now.May be I have to remind you of what your quran said of Jesus, that Jesus is in the third heaven and that He is coming back again to lead all Muslims in their final prayers.now compare your Muhammed who when He was dying told his followers that He did not know where He was going that His followers should pray for Him.[ no wonder when you Muslims want to pray, you pray for your Muhammed first]. Muhammed died his grave is your idol till tomorrow.Jesus told us that he knew where He was going. He promised coming back again as agreed by your Quran.If not because the devil has blindfolded the Muslims from the trueth, compare Muhammed and Jesus who according to your Quran will lead you in the final prayers. accept Jesus the unique one, the only one among all the ‘Prophets'[according to you Muslims],[ Christians call him the Son of God,becouse no one could do and will never do what He did, eg He is coming back again as He promised and believed even by you MUslims]Muhammed died he never rose, Jesus did. ok you said you do not believe this, but you believe He is coming back again which Muhammed is not reported to attempt. I pray that God will open your eyes to the only one who when compared to Muhammed etc is the best. YOu will have no excuse befor God because you have been hearing and you have heard again
Two Hundred Verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran
the reason why you muslims say what you say about Jesus Christ is because he is knocking on your doors ..just let him in and he will eat with you
jesus the son of mary was raised up alive into the heavens according to the ahadith literature. And the holy prophet Muhammad (saw) said that the messiah jesus the son of mary will descend near the end of times, to preach monotheism and proclaim that Allah is one with no partners.
But jesus the son mary willl follow the quran and sunnah of muhammad (saw) hence jesus will be a follower of the teachings of Islam. Hence the best of all prophets is Muhammad (saw).
the hadith literature states many virtues of Muhammad (saw) that shows his unique status:
Muhammad (saw) recieved the best revelation – the Quran
Muhammad (saw) will be the first to be ressurected on day of judgement. he will be the first to enter jannah. the shariah of Muhammad (saw) is the last and complete path to Allah.
For us Muslims, the Holy Qur’an is an authority of the highest grade ………‘Surely conjecture avails naught (nothing) against truth.’ (10:37)
The Rumors:
Blind Belief1: The traditional belief of the majority of Muslims masses is that Jesus was not put on the cross at all, and that someone else resembling Jesus was crucified in his place. Jesus, instead, is supposed to have been ‘raised’ to heaven or perhaps skies, body and soul.
Blind Belief2:
Few of the so-called orthodox Muslim clergy believe that Jesus was a great prophet from God (and a prophet can’t die an accursed death) so was taken away from the cross after being crucified and was shifted to the fourth (or perhaps fifth) heaven to be saved. And again, there are few groups of Muslims who believe that Jesus was taken away from the cross during the storm and was placed somewhere between the seven skies.
Well, lets see what Allah has to say about it, shall we?
Death of Jesus Proved by Quran-e-Majeed
All praise belongs to Allah, Who has sent down the Book to His servant, free from all distortion, full of truth and guidance…(Ch.18:Vs.2-3)
At the outset, I’d clearly like to put down that:
There is not a single verse in the Holy Quran where it is written that Jesus (as) is alive today.
There is not a single verse in the Holy Quran where it is written that Jesus Christ went up to some skies or Heaven.
Let alone Jesus, there is no mention of any physical ascension of any living prophet.
No hadith (sayings of Prophet Mohammad (saw)) testifies the physical ascension of Jesus (as) – Not even a single!
So depending on The Holy Quran & The Hadees I reject the belief that Jesus Christ went into space to escape crucifixion or is alive up there today.
A Warning to the disbelievers in Qur’an:
O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfillment of His word which He sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. (Ch.4: V.172)
The Quran is quite clear that Hadhrat Jesus (as) has passed away. Let me present to you the specific verses right from Quran-e-Paak, which prove my point – The Truth:
………‘Surely conjecture avails naught (nothing) against truth.’ (10:37)
1. Jesus passed away:
“The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how WE explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.” (The Holy Quran, 5:76)
THIS AAYAT (verse) PROVES IT PERFECTLY THAT ISA IBN MARYAM HAS DIED AND LEAVES NO ROOM FOR ANY CONFUSION: “The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had passed away”.
Surely we belong to Allah and to Him shall we return [2:157]
This is proved by the below verse of Al-Anbiya’:
[21:9] And We did not give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they to live for ever.
Here ‘them’ & ‘they’ specifically refers to Messengers.
Allah has not given them a body that ‘ate no food’ (in this world) and now, even if we nonsensically assume that Jesus is up above since 2000 years without food, we cannot expect him to be alive.
God, the knower of Past, Present and Future knew full well that Mullahs of later time will assign nonsense stuff to Jesus, the Son of Mary (pbuh), so he already provided us with knowledge through the Verses of the Holy Quran, Subhan’Allah!
[33:63] Such has been the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away before, and thou wilt never find a change in the way of Allah.
And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily all Messengers have passed away before him. (The Holy Quran, 3:145)
This verse clearly states that ‘All messengers have passed away who had come before Prophet Mohammad’. Jesus (as) had come approximately 600 years before Mohammad (saw). Now, if you believe that the Messiah Jesus is still alive (2000 years later) then God’s statement in the Holy Quran should be wrong, agreed?
I wonder, what’s wrong with the Muslims of today who consider the Mullah to be correct and agree with his false views and reject the Truth recorded in the Quran, in the words of Allah, the almighty.
For the Mullah, they agree that God himself can be wrong! Extremely pathetic!
Referring to the Holy Prophet [saw] God says:
WE granted not everlasting life to any mortal before thee. If they shouldst die, shall they live here for ever? (The Holy Quran, 21:35)
God loves the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) more than He loves anyone else. He was the purpose for all creation as Hadith says: “Had I not created thee I would have created neither heaven nor earth.”
Hence, if any man deserved to remain alive and ascend to heaven, it was our Holy Prophet (saw). If he has died in the usual way, other prophets definitely must have died in the same way.
Any arguments, there?
Does anybody thinks that [Astagfirullah Astagfirullah Astagfirullah] Jesus is mightier than the Holy Prophet Mohammad Mustafa (May Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him) who is the Nabi-e-Kareem (Chief of Prophets), Khatamun Nabiyyeen (The Seal of Prophets), Khatamul Ambiya (Leader of the elect), Khatamul Mursileen, (Pride of the Prophets)?
THE BEST HADITH TO PROVE DEATH OF JESUS:
In Bukhari, it is recorded that after the death of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw), some of the companions, among them Hadhrat Umar ibn al-Khattab (ra), doubted he was really dead. However, Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra), ascended to the pulpit in the Mosque and recited the Quranic verse: Muhammad is only a Messenger. All Messengers before him have passed away. (3:145)
In this verse of the Holy Quran the passing away of all the Messengers who came before the Holy Prophet (saw) has been pronounced; and the passing away has been adjudged only in two ways–either by death or through assassination. Had there been any third way of passing away (like that of ascending to heaven ALIVE) it should have been mentioned by God. The passing away of Jesus & other Messengers had already been mentioned in 5:76 wherein Allah says:
“The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away ….”
Coming back to the story: After the short speech and recitation of this verse by Abu Bakr (ra) the companions realized that indeed the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) had passed away. NO ONE OBJECTED THAT HADHRAT Jesus (as) OR ANY OTHER PROPHET HAD NOT DIED. Now, if the companions present on this occasion thought that Hadhrat Jesus (as) had been alive in Heaven for 600 years, they would have stood up and pointed out to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra), that it was wrong to say that all the earlier prophets had died.
Everyone Accepted And Confirmed The Death Of All Previous Prophets.
This Was The First Ijma Or Consensus Of The Muslim Community. The family of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) were also agreed on the death of Hadhrat Jesus (as).
It is recorded in Majma-al-Bahar that, according to Imam Malik, Jesus died in the natural way.
Again the Holy Prophet himself had said,
“If Jesus and Moses had been alive, they would have had no choice but to follow me.” (Kathir vol II, p 245 and al yawaqit wal Jawahir, part 2, page 24; Fath al-Bayan, vol. 2, p. 246; Tafsir Ibn Kathir, under verse 81 of Al Imran, Zurqani, Vol. VI, p. 54, Tibrani Kabeer).
The Holy Prophet’s words are significant and clear. If, says he, Moses and Jesus were alive. This ‘if’ means that the two are not alive. Moses is not alive, nor is Jesus. This is an important declaration by the Holy Prophet bearing on the subject.
After hearing this declaration, no true follower of the Prophet can think that Jesus is alive in Heaven, because, if Jesus is alive, this declaration of the Holy Prophet turns out to be false, Astaghfirullah!
In short, the Holy Quran, the Traditions, the consensus of opinion among the Companions and the family of the Holy Prophet, and the opinions of the doctors of Islam all support belief in the death of Jesus. All of them teach that Jesus died like all mortals. All these and scholars (Sahaba of the prophet (saw), Imams, Sunni (Deobandi, Brelvi, Sufi), Shia) can not be wrong all at once. And more than that if Holy Prophet (saw) himself has decided the issue of of Jesus then no Muslim can argue with that.
Now are the Mullahs / Muftis of Modern Islam greater than all of above?
Now do we have to reject all of these and believe in the lies of Mullah?
Or dear wise-Muslims, do you think Mullah is even greater than Allah? Astaghfirullah!
Choose whom you wish to follow.
Follow Allah, forget the Mullah
regarding the verse ; “The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; other messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.”
it generally means that messengers have passed away before and that also isa will die as well.
regarding the other ayat; “And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily messengers have passed away before him. (The Holy Quran, 3:145)
its general and that all messengers will pass away. it does not mean that all messengers have dies since some of the angels are mentioned in the quran as messengers. but all messegers that are alive will die near the hour such as jesus and all angels will die on day of judgment based upon ahadith. then all humans, jinn and angels will be raised up alive.
bayhaqi reported that the prophet 9saw) said ; “Allah saved isa ibn maryam and raised him upto the heavens.”
hence the Quran, sunnah, the ijma of the sahabas and the ijma of the classical scholars and scolars of ahle sunnah agreed that isa ibn maryam was raised up alive.
the ahadith mention that isa ibn maryam will return from heaven and descend oto damascus and pray behind Imam Mahdi. then isa will kill dajjal and preach islam.
Comments can be made brief by linking rather than copying the contents.
Besides brief comments are widely read and enjoyed. Thanks
Parvez posted on 11 Oct:
regarding the other ayat; “And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily messengers have passed away before him. (The Holy Quran, 3:145)
its general and that all messengers will pass away. it does not mean that all messengers have dies(Sic died)
———————————————
The word used for messengers passing away is “Qadd Khalat” which is definitive past tense. It is not future tense. It does not mean “will die”. It means “messengers before him have surely passed away.”
Therefore messengers before Muhammad s.a.w.s. had passed away and Jesus (Isa a.s.) was one of them who was before our prophet s.a.w.s. So Isa a.s. had also passed away.
May I add a few more lines. The actual words in the verse seem to be “Qadd Khalat min qablihee (Jamee) ar Rusul.” The word Jamee is Makhzoof and should be interpolated. If such method was not used in the Quran, the book would have become voluminous.
So the real meaning of the verse or translation would be: “And Muhammad is only a messenger. Surely, (all) messengers have passed away before him.”
—————————–
Failed to grasp how Parvez’s booklet is allowed to publish on supposedly commenting sections?
@Parvez
At least I did not even take a glance on your words. You achieved nothing but waste of time.
regarding the verse in the quran ch 3 vs 144
“Muhammad is no more than a Messenger and indeed many Messengers have passed away before him.”
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=490&Itemid=46
it is a proof that messengers are not immortal. Also its a general verse that means messengers have passed away. but it odesnt mean that all messengers have died before Muhammad such as the angels and jesus the son of mary.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2485&Itemid=77
““Praise be to Allah, who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, who made the angels, messengers with wings….” [35:1]
hence not all messengers have dies since there are some angels regarded as messengers.
also there are many ahadith that states that isa ibn maryam was raised up alive into the heavens and that he will return to kill dajjal and preach islam and pray behind Imam mahdi.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=579&Itemid=59
there were two typo in my previous comment
but it doesn’t mean*
not all messengers have died*
Dear Parvez, I am sorry to say that in this age of information and wisdom, you continue to believe in fairy tales and you want to bend all reality to your fairy tales of Jesus, may peace be on him, having been taken to heaven, while some one else was given his form and crucified on the cross.
Jesus of your imagination will now be 2050 years old, defying every thing we know about biology and aging, spoke a language, which hardly exists, lived in a time, when 3/4th of the Roman Empire were slaves, taught a religion, which does not exist any more, as it has been taken over by Pauline Christianity.
If he were to come in this world, since the industrial revolution, he will find nothing familiar, unable to communicate, even if he does not have severe memory loss, already.
Which planet does he live in by the way and are conditions conducive to supporting human life on that planet?
What divine purpose would sending of an at least 2050 year old person, excuse my language, demented and mute serve, which God could not achieve by appointing one of the billions present today as reformer?
Why does God have to destroy all laws of nature, of life and biology, to what end?
Sadly, you are being penny wise and pound foolish. Unfortunately, many Sunnis are stuck in nit picking and spliting hair, in the Ahmadiyya understanding, without analyzing the fairy tales that they carry with them.
What is even more unfortunate that many a Sunni Muslims bend their understanding of the Holy Quran around these fairy tales, making themselves a laughing stock of the world!
I think what could benefit all of us, from Jesus, may peace be on him, is his saying:
Ahmadiyya literature presents thirty verses from the Holy Quran to show that Jesus, may peace be on him, has died and is not alive.
Even if there were no verses our daily experience of billions dying in our own time should convince us that Jesus has died.
I hope you will excuse my shrill tone here as I was afraid without it you are likely to miss the point.
Your fairy tales include extraordinary claims and for extraordinary claims one should present extraordinary proofs and evidence and all you have to present is some misinterpretations of some Hadiths.
Pervez’s posts seem to me to be a bit ‘repetitive’ …
Parvez, I have deleted some of your recent comments in this thread or post as those are mere repetitions of your references or at least that is what seems to me.
If you want to talk to us rather than copy and paste, then, respond in reasonable language to my previous comment please and I will approve that.
You can always link your references.
Salam and Peace!
the intepretations of the quran by the Prophet (saw) and the sahabas of the relevant verse regarding the messiah states that the messiah isa ibn maryam was raised up alive and will return before the hour. The below link contains authentic ahadith about the return of isa ibn maryam;
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2076&Itemid=99
“And indeed, Jesus will be a sign of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.” [quran ch 43 vs61]
notice the prophet (saw) always refered to the return of the messiah as isa ibn maryam, hence he is the same messiah who will come back.
regarding the miracle of the return of the messiah; the quran and ahadith mention many miracles that are beyond natural laws.
Examples include the miracle birth of jesus, jesus healing those born blind, sulayman (as) speaking to birds and commanding the jinns, nuh (as) living for 950 years, moon being split, muhammad (saw) going from makkah to jerusalem and then to the heavens and coming back to makkah within a night, staff of moses turning to snake, the split of the red sea, zakariya’s wife giving birth to yahya at barren age and many other miracles.
To not believe in the miracles in the quran and ahadith shows lack of faith and opens the door to other problems. hw can any1 prove the concept of revelations, prophethood, existence of angels, jinns, heaven, hell and the hereafter??
I have reproduced your comment in a different thread, where it truly belongs.
We will discuss it further there:
http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2011/08/religion/islam/ahmadiyya-vs-sunni-debate-death-of-jesus-urdu#comment-667155
By the way, do you know Urdu?