Michael Shermer makes a fairly provocative yet a correct statement, in my opinion, in the middle of a recent debate:
I have a problem with resurrection. So, you believe that Jesus was son of God and God Incarnate also. Three in one and One in three. A Trinitarian belief. … As I understand it, for us to be saved, God sacrificed Himself, to Himself, to save us, from Himself. This sounds to me incomprehensible, barking mad!
I happen to agree, even though, usually I will not put it so bluntly.
My Prologue for every recent debate, between the Trinitarian Christians and atheists:
Christian apologists want to make a case for Christianity based on laws of nature and science, by showing that there ought to be a Transcendent Creator of our universe. They make this case, in one breath, and in the very next, deny all of science, by insisting on Eucharist, man-God of Jesus, who is not Transcendent, resurrection and miracles that violate laws of nature.
Atheists are right in exposing the irrationality of the Christian dogma. However, the Christians are right in as far as their claim that there needs to be a Creator of this universe, Who employed natural means to do His work. However, both parties in their self-conceit are not listening to how Islam resolves their conflict; Islam as understood by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
In a trilateral discussion between atheists, Christians and Muslims, I believe we can appreciate reality better and come up with better theology, especially if the discussion not only involves the Creator and purpose of the universe, but, also His complete Transcendence, Original Sin and evolution of life on our planet, Trinity, Mother Mary and Eucharist.
For the above quote of Michael Shermer, please start listening at minute 8 of the video below:
Categories: Atheism, CHRISTIANITY, Religion
Actually, the Trinity and the incarnation of the Son of God are both essential if we are able to believe that God truly loves us. The Trinity, as an eternal communion or fellowship between Father, Son and Spirit shows that relationship is an essentialaspect of God’s nature. From eternity, the Father is inloving fellowship with the Son (and the Spirit). Relationship is part if God’s essence, yet he does not need us for relationship to exist, as it exists within the Godhead. The monadic oneness of tawheed does not allow for a God whose essence is relational. The God of tawheed is eternally solitary. But the God of the Bible can be truly love.
The incarnation is an expression of this: God so loved the world and hence desired to reconcile it with Himself that He came Himself and took on the essence of a man (i.e. became incarnate), so that he could show us the extent of his love, show us how we should live and offer himself for us, taking our punishment on the cross. He died in his humanity (body) but remained alive in his divinity. Death could not overpower Him, so He rose again.
Most wives may seek constant reassurances from their husbands that they love them and sometimes vice versa also.
Thanks God that most of them don’t want their husbands to demonstrate their love by dying for them.
For the son of God to die, to fulfill some demand of God the father is not love, but very medieval and that is an understatement, for I am trying to be polite.
Dear Dr Shah, in normal circumstaces, my death would not do much good for my wife, about that you are correct. I don’t even have life insurance. However, an analogy might be if I placed myself in between my wife and a violent assailant(or an oncoming vehicle), so that I took the blow directed at her. In this analogy, I would die but she would live because of my ‘sacrifice.’
God’s judgement is directed at me because of my wrong deeds and thoughts (and because of deep corruption in my heart). But Jesus comes and stands in my place.
This is not the Father punishing his Son for whom he cares little and from whom he is distant. Being of one mind, the Son wills to go at the same moment the Father asks him to go. Futhermore, the Father suffers with his Son, because of the deep union and love between them.
That God would be willing to do this out of love for his creatures is truly humbling and wonderful. May God richly bless you.
Can the Ever Living God who gives life to others ever die even for a moment?
Christopher Michael Emmanuel,
New Delhi, India.
Dear Emmanuel, in spite of your ‘Christian’ name you are very much in agreement with us. Please continue to study http://www.themuslimtimes.org and http://www.alislam.org!