JP –
A cartoonist, unlike a a violent extremist, can innocently claim, “But these are just harmless cartoons, only a lunatic would take offence, let alone seek to ban them”. But make no mistake, cartoons are a political tool since the days of Thomas Nast, and they merit our intellectual attention.
Recently some atheists at the LSE Freshers day were asked by university authorities to remove T-shirts depicting the Prophets Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them both) sharing a beer together. Well, to be more exact, they were asked to remove “Jesus and Mo” cartoon t-shirts, where “Jesus” is depicted as a cartoon caricature of the real Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) and “Mo” is ostensibly a ‘body double’ of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Such conflicts are proliferating, and present an interesting challenge to our democratic society in the UK: do atheists have the right to offend Muslims?
On the face of it, this may seem a simple question, and most people probably will start reading this article with a fixed opinion on the issue. But it’s actually a rather complicated question!
The European Convention of Human Rights guarantees freedom of expression in Article 10 of that Convention. However, like all fundamental rights, it recognises exceptions. Particularly relevant exceptions in this instance are for the purpose of preventing social disorder, of protecting morals, and protecting the reputation or the rights of others.
Additional Reading
Freedom of Speech: A Core Islamic Value!
A Critique of President Obama’s UN Speech
A challenge for Dawkins: Where did carbon come from?
The Muslim Times’ Editor’s comments
Article 10 of European Convention of Human Rights provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are “in accordance with law” and “necessary in a democratic society”. This right includes the freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas, but allows restrictions for:
- interests of national security
- territorial integrity or public safety
- prevention of disorder or crime
- protection of health or morals
- protection of the reputation or the rights of others
- preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence
- maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary
Categories: ATHEISM, CHRISTIANITY, Europe, Freedom, Islam
The answer is simple.
No human being has the right to offend another person.
When people ask me this question, I always ask;
What purpose would it serve to offend 1.7 billion people?
Would it bring peace, harmony and a better understanding?
The answer is a resounding; NO.
One person’s freedom ends where another’s begins. Therefore offensive ‘anything’, should NOT be allowed under the guise of freedom of expression.
In fact, it is more hate mongering than so-called freedom of expression and therefore should be made illegal and a crime for it costs many lives.
Someone making light of beliefs isn’t hate mongering. It doesn’t cost a single life, I’ve yet to hear of an instance where some making a joke killed someone as opposed to writers being murdered because people didn’t like what they said. Grow a thicker skin and if you think people are spreading untruths then correct them. Silencing people solves nothing.
If my Ham & Cheese sandwich offends you because it mixes meat and a milk product, I am not the one causing you the offense. Nom, nomm..
Political correctness is just another form of persecution.
It is nearly impossible to go through life without offending someone, unless you are completely boring.
“No human being has the right to offend another person.”
“offensive ‘anything’, should NOT be allowed”
Are you people crazy?
“In fact, it is more hate mongering than so-called freedom of expression and therefore should be made illegal and a crime for it costs many lives.”
Are you serious? A cartoon is costing lives? Please tell me this is a joke. Your extreme reactions to criticism of a deeply questionable worldview are costing lives. Don’t push the blame onto the rational.
You’re insane.
I’m offended every time some religious person tells me I’m going to hell, or that I can’t do something because it’s against their belief. What makes you so damn special? You know what offense is? Not my problem. How about you stop being a pussy and just ignore what someone says if it offends you? Or maybe just whine some more about how atheists are treading all over your religious freedoms.
Bullshrimp.
I can’t offend you. You can’t offend me. I can choose to take offense at something you do or say (as I am right now), but it’s MY choice to “be offended”.
Until you tell me, how am I supposed to know what you find offensive? Must I keep my mouth shut? I find that attitude extremely offensive.
As Voltaire said “Monsieur l’abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.”
Now, if you tell me you find something offensive, and I then say or do that with the intent to cause you discomfort or pain, that’s harassment, assault, possibly even battery. But if I’m not attempting to cause you grief, then your offense is YOURS, not mine.
“No human being has the right to offend another person.” Yet non-muslims allow the practice of Islam even though many of it’s ideas are offensive to them.
“…should be made illegal and a crime for it costs many lives.” Who is taking these lives? Surely you cannot blame a cartoonist for the violence of those who do not like his drawings.
Ah, okay. So my comment is awaiting moderation. How am I not surprised that this website does not allow dissenting opinions?
People have the right to wear cartoon caricatures of leprechauns, I fail to see the difference. Just because you worship something, does not mean that you have the right to make others treat it is sacred in some way. The debate is not about whether or not atheists have the right to offend you, it is about whether or not you have the right to silence others based on your religion.
I’m extremely offended when someone tries to convert me to their religion, or even worse, when they try to convert young children. It doesn’t matter if I am offended, however. It is their right to express their religion, just as it is my right to condemn it. Stop policing people, and focus on your own morals.
while i understand the greater concern here, one person or group of persons offending another person/group and whether that is morally acceptable or not. the fact remains that there is a great deal about islamic religions that limit and in many cases simply stampede others freedoms. asking is it ok for you to offend a group of people who do their own fair share of offending is a moot question. morally i feel like actively trying to offend someone is reprehensible, however when you live in a glass house it’s best to keep the rock throwing to a minimum.
Islamic countries happen to be amongst the most repressed and strife ridden regions of the world, and i would venture to say the two are likely related. in part because of the freedoms they are unwilling to grant, the inequality preached and accepted by those of the faith. one simply has to see how they treat and view the women of their society to see that this is not a freedom and equality loving religion, at least in some parts of the world.
all in all i would say that if you want freedom to practice what you believe in, you must provide others the same exact right, else you may need to bare the weight of your hypocrisy.
If people aren’t allowed to offend others at all, then billions of religious people should be locked up for their belief that I’m better off dead than being myself as a transgender woman, and I should be locked up for existing in a manner that offends them. Basically taking that position to its logical extreme, everyone should be locked up because they offend someone else merely by existing.
Do Muslims (or Christians or Jews, or Zoroastrians, or any other religious people for that matter) have the right to offend an atheist (or people of any other religion)? If you are offended by the expression of free speech that is not “hate speech” then you are offended by the concept of free speech, not the content of that speech. That is offensive.
Ummm, ok. The Koran offends me, so stop printing them. See how silly that sounds? Get over it.
Tell me. EXACTLY what “right” ISLAM has to try and FORCE itself onto those who don’t want it ? What gives Islam the “right” to use murder and terror and even the legal systems to “offend” any that do not believe EXACTLY as you do (including other Muslims) ?
Why are the actions and lies of Islam not considered offensive ? Islam is not, and NEVER has been a religion of “peace and tolerance” and it proves that EVERY day, yet you do not consider that offensive ?
Only those who stand up to the terror, those who refuse to become slaves to ancient myths, those who chose NOT to believe as you do are considered offensive ?
Hypocrite.
Religions themselves are offensive. Perhaps that is why they are the LEADING cause of war and strife on this planet.
ANY religion that condones and even advocates violence against any non-believers is offensive.
ANY person that supports and tries to justify such actions is just as guilty of the crimes as the ones doing them.
Your question should have been “Do RELIGIONS have the right to offend ANYONE ?”
But I’m guessing that would have been too honest of a question for you to ask.
The article is correct, the issue is complex and intricate. I have often considered to myself whether I am just being strident and annoying in intentionally offending those who hold that there are limits on my freedom of expression.
The question is very important to, say, cases of hate speech and bullying, where you can make the empathic case that we should punish those who do so.
However, the question in and of itself is simple. Atheists should be allowed to offend Muslims, because to take offence is pragmatically something we cannot constantly be aware of nor is it right to punish those who speak out against you, even in satire, such as the Jesus and Mo cartoons. As the article correctly claims, cartoons are often a political tool, and so should be treated as such. No criticism should ever be silenced merely for being criticism, and this is why atheists have the right to offend Muslims, because Muslims, and indeed everyone, has the right to offend everyone else through these same means.
When we, for example, make cartoon depictions it is true that this is a grave offence to a Muslim and religiously forbidden. However, I am under no obligation to adhere to your religious rules (freedom of religion goes both ways). I did draw Muhammad for one simple reason: to protest those who believe that I should be punished for violating a religious mandate that I did not adhere to. It may have caused offence, but it was a political message and a criticism. And to silence those who speak against you simply for speaking against you harms us all.
Well if its perfectly fine for Muslim cartoonists to mock Jews and other religions then I don’t see how you can stand all high and mighty when others mock yours.
For example:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images:Antisemitic_Cartoons
http://archive.adl.org/main_Arab_World/arab_media_portrayal_jews.htm
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm
As Stephen Fry said: “It’s now very common to hear people say, ‘I’m rather offended by that.’ As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more… than a whine. ‘I find that offensive.’ It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. ‘I am offended by that.’ Well, so fucking what.”
I suppose it’s ok for Muslims to offend the rest of the world, as they often do? The Quran is filled with offensive statements about non-believers…
IMO, taking offense is an egotistical, selfish, self-centered judgement. When one is offended they should look within, not accuse or seek to control others.
So yes, atheists have a right to say whatever they like, as do Muslims. Who is to judge whether a Muslim calling non-believers infidels or an atheist calling believers fools are “offending”? Nobody can make an objective judgement, so it’s none of anyone’s business.
The comments above defending islam are nonsense, The answer is an unqualified yes…to bad if someone gets offended. I find it offensive that muslims treat women like dirt. As I am fond of saying I am against all religions, all of them… I do not believe in freedom of religion, I believe in freedom from religion.
Yes, offending people should not be done on purpose ofc, but EVERYONE “have the right” to offend everyone, What are you afraid of? ohh he offended me.. so? whats gonna happen now? you gonna loose your job? die? loose money?… ohh nothing, I see. Nothing will happen.. beeing offended is not dangerous, and its totaly subjective, what offends me might not offend you and so on.. how is this law going to be enforced? Just to mention it, It offends me that people get pushed into religion before they are old enough to choose and never realy get a choise of what religion they get pushed into.
It is posited above that “No human being has the right to offend another person.” Sorry, but I non-concur.
However, it is almost a guarantee that just about anything I say will offend SOMEONE. If I say that Muslims are right and Christians are wrong, some Christian somewhere will take offence. And vice versa. So, since it is almost impossible to speak without offending SOMEONE SOMEWHERE, claiming that “No human being has the right to offend another person” is tantamount to saying “No person has the right to speak.”
The “right” not to be offended is incompatible with free speech. In a free society, free speech wins.
More in line with Free Speech: No one has the right not to be offended by what others say. You’re offended. Well tough luck.
Mmhmm… Now let’s talk about those Muslims in Britain and Belgium shouting “SHARIA FOR EUROPE!”. Here’s what: Christians offend a lot of people, Muslims offend a lot of people, heathens offend a lot of people, atheists offend a lot of people. Accept the fact that nobody is entitled to a privileged position and get over it.
Of course they can.
The mere question is ridiculous. Everybody is in control of their own actions, reactions, responses, and feelings. In order to be offended, you must allow yourself to be offended. This is completely subjective to an individual. Instead of punishing an “atheist” for “offending” somebody, why doesn’t the offended change their reactions. If they quit being offended, there would never be an issue.
Why segregate Muslims and atheists how about all the other groups that get offended? What about the gays, the seniors, the women, the Christians, the atheists, the Jews, the Germans, the blacks, the Mormons. All of them get offended in one way or another by each other. Bottom line, the ones that do, are all pussies. They have grown up thinking their beliefs are the only ones out there, and that the world will cater to them. You can believe in a God and still get along with the world. Laugh at a cartoon of Mohammad sucking a cock, it’s not going to hurt you.
We all have control of ourselves, stop putting the blame on others. Offensive does not exist in my book. Grow some balls.
It is still to say or do something JUST for the sake of offending others or hurting their feelings. But one should not be compelled to withhold their own genuine thoughts or beliefs simply because expressing them might offend others. Many people believe in a god or gods. I do not, and it harms no one for me to say so. If I insist that others must not believe, that would be just as offensive as if someone insisted that I must believe. I would not tell someone to stop believing, and I will not allow others to tell me I must start believing.
That should be: “It is silly…” not “It is still”
Stupid ideas should be mocked.
So if the two previous commenter’s offended me, they should be held accountable for my feelings and emotions. You BOTH have offended me! …see how quickly your logic becomes ridiculous?
Under the US constitution, we have the right to offend… anyone. However, to what purpose? To answer an offense with another offense is childish. It doesn’t raise the tone of the conversation, and only fans the fires of hate.
Let’s turn it round – do Muslims have the right to offend atheists by ridiculing their belief that there are no gods? You can’t have it both ways. You are only offended by a cartoon of Mohammed because the Koran says you should be. If you’re not a Muslim, you’re not breaking any rules by drawing such a cartoon. You can’t hold non-Muslims to Sharia law, because you are then denying people the same rights you want for yourself.
You people are disgusting. Offending people does not cost lives and I read your comment as a threat.
It’s time the infants that moan about being offended grew up. Healthy normal people WELCOME having their worldview challenged or mocked and laughed at. It’s called a sense of humour.
And I claim my right to offend. What purpose does it serve to offend 1.7billion people? Peace and harmony perhaps not but it certainly gives us a better understanding of how poorly educated people can care TOO much (enough to kill others) about their religion.
Oh please I’m sure these all powerful beings can look after themselves . Do they really need you to get offended?
Please get over yourselve?s atheists don’t kill anyone cos they don’t agree with them reflect!!!
What happens when we flip the issue? Do Muslims have a right to offend atheists? If I find your very belief structure offensive, does that mean that you should not be allowed to practice it?
Obviously, the answer is no. Tolerance and acceptance are two very different things. I tolerate the fact that others have different beliefs. Practice your superstition as you see fit, so long as it doesn’t harm me. And in return, don’t get so uptight about what I choose to make fun of.
And please remember that if you’re feelings are hurt by a cartoon, you should stop talking. This is an adult discussion, and if you’re that emotionally unstable, you obviously have the emotional maturity of a child.
I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion (even though I consider belief in the supernatural to be the source of all evil). You can believe in any
superstition you want and I can make fun of it. If your religion can’t handle
critiques and WORDS spoken against it, you must have a weak god. You can make fun of my interests all you want. If I don’t like it, I don’t have to listen.
I don’t run around trying to get some group together to shut you down because I have strength of character and your words CAN NOT hurt me.
Have a nice day!
So, if we don’t want civil unrest then we better change our lives so Muslims aren’t offended.
Problem is, everything non Islamic offends Muslims.
No one’s subjective beliefs should have ANY authority over other people that don’t share them. (peace be upon them)
Of course people have the right to offend each other. To say otherwise is ridiculous. That doesn’t mean that people should actively offend another person, but if someone offends you then let it go. Because otherwise you are empowering that person. If you can rise above your feeling of being offended you are in a higher intellectual plane than the person that seeks to offend you. Remember, telling someone they cannot do something because it offends you just gives them the tools to do so. Ignore offensive people or you become their puppets.
You can be offended about literally anything. But being offended doesn’t give you the right to silence another person.
A person cannot MAKE you feel offended. A person can’t MAKE you feel anything. You are responsible for your own feelings/emotions.
“It’s now very common to hear people say, ‘I’m rather offended by that.’ As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more… than a whine. ‘I find that offensive.’ It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. ‘I am offended by that.’ Well, so … what.” – Stephen Fry
Bashy and Raziya,
The answer is not really so simple. It only seems simple when you consider it from one side of the question, as you are doing. As an atheist, I am offended by Islam (and every other theist religion) as affronts to logic and impediments to human progress and dignity. Should open expressions of Islamic faith be banned because it offends me (and many other people)? Of course not. Because, in fact, we do have the right to offend people. My taste in music may offend you, and vice versa. My opinion of domestic politics, and my preferred political party, offend the other half of my nation, and vice versa. Without the prospect of giving offense, we can not address contentious issues in the hope of changing opinions and resolving them. There would be no prospect of an open and democratic polity without the prospect of giving offense.
If you attempt to look at the question not *solely* as a Muslim, but also as a citizen of a world that is a complex of competing interests, you must, I think (I hope) agree that giving offense is inevitable and cannot be banned without imposing unacceptable constraints on the whole of society.
The nature of free speach is that it must be free. People will say things that upset you. But in the public market place of ideas, we rightly laugh at bigots and ask for more information on new ideas that use logic to form a valid point. Oscar Wilde once said: ‘I will fight to the death for the right for your to make a complete ass of youself’. I am an Athiest, but I will never allow the suppression of what others want to say or believe.
What Raziya wrote doesn’t even make basic logical sense.
For example, I am offended by Raziya’s comments above. Therefore according to Raziya’s own views she is ‘more hatemongering’ and her actions should be illegal…
So as you should all now be able to clearly see that Raziya’s badly thought out law can be used to stop her even creating the law in the first place (because I am offended). Now can you see how stupid this is? We NEED to be able to offend people. It is part of being human
As someone who doesn’t believe as you do, your comments are sincerely offensive to me. Should I allow you your freedom of expression, or should I label it and make it illegal?
I wonder what your advice to me would be?
A moslem public figure, Louis Farakhan, speaking before a national audience, once insulted me and all Jews by calling Judaism a “…dirty, little religion…”
There was palpable hatred on his face and in his voice.
Not one Jew–or anyone else–rioted, threatened him with violence or death, or otherwise descended into insanity–as moslems are wont to do.
It may be wrong to offend someone–although if it is unintentional it is not an offense of great magnitude. Verbal offenses that are intended–like Farakhan’s–are surely wrong, although people who have behaved horribly (like terrorists) can be appropriately offended.
What is ABSOLUTELY wrong is ethnocentric violence and terror. It is reprehensible and obscene, and dwarfs verbal and written criticism or ridicule in magnitude.
Can moslems ever learn to understand this?
You don’t have a right to not be offended. What if I were to say prayer rugs, or crucifixes offend me? Would you then relinquish them to private, home only use? That answer is a resounding no. Religious persons always form an absolute dichotomy, where they block off opposing points of view because of their “offensive nature” but, shove their Bronze Age fairy tales down everyone’s throats and demand that it be respected.
Just because you can’t handle free speech doesn’t mean you are free to impede it.
‘It’s now very common to hear people say, “I’m rather offended by that”, as if that gives them certain rights. It’s no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. “I’m offended by that.” Well, so f****** what?’ —Stephen Fry
You being offended is not my problem. If I offend you and you go on a rampage and kill people. The people that have died are not my fault. I wish you religious idiots (Christians included) would get some self responsibility and leave everyone alone.
One person’s freedom ending where the another persons freedom begins is quite good but you are missing one important fact. Offending someone is not taking away their freedom.
However telling someone they can’t say something is taking away freedom. That’s why in countries of the world that are free we have free expression and you don’t have to limit it because someone is offended because offending someone isn’t taking away freedom.
Also Bashy… what HARM could it do to offend 1.7billion people? And I don’t mean them carrying out acts of violence. Because that is then the violent people that has caused the harm.
@ Bashy Quraishy
Every human has the right to offend another person.
It’s not right. But, I should not be punished for saying, you’re a piece of shit.
Secondly, What you deem offensive is different from what I deem offensive
I see Jesus, and Mohammad sharing a Beer.
What I see is a cartoon, of two people, being friendly, and peaceful.
I’m not sure where the offensiveness comes into play. Unless its the whole “don’t consume alcohol”
Which is stupid, and if you take that offensive, then I pity you, for being such a sensitive person.
Well, you have a right to be offended, i have a right to offend. Simple as that, it is not illegal for you to wear a t-shirt mocking atheism is it. If facts and reality hurt, one could always stay at home. My rights are mine, i wear what i want, i say what i like, i am not going to be censored by others and neither should you be.
If we can’t offend Muslims, then you cannot offend us by trying to change our laws to suit yourselves, or trying to promote Sharia Law which is and always will be incompatible with Western democracy. Your religion and prophet and his words also offend us. From the ill treatment of woman, stoning of homosexuals, having sex with children.After you give up all of that than we will stop offending Islam, in the meantime we will continuously criticize and offend Islam.