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Categories: Ahmadiyyat: True Islam, Islam
there is a BBC documentary Did Jesus Die on Cross research by Christian Scholars
JESUS IN KASHMIR A DOCUMENTARY BY INDIAN GOVERNMENT SHEDS GREAT LIGHT ON HIS LIFE IN KASHMIR WHERE HE WAS FINALLY LAID TO REST.
It is totally wrong that Quran says Jesus and other prophets are alive in heaven.
There is no such “ayat” or verse of the in the Holy Quran.
On the contrary, as the Maulvi sahab in this audio clip cited the very first establishes the fact Jesus and his mother both died just like prophets who came before (him).
Interestingly, there is a similar verse in regards to the Holy Prophet which says that prophets before (and Jesus was the immediate) all passed away an that the Holy Prophet will also pass away.
And the Maulvi sahab is absolutely right that there are greater number of verses that speak of the death of Jesus than any other single prophet.
I have moved at least two comments from another thread to this thread, as those belong here.
Dear Parvez, I am sorry to say that in this age of information and wisdom, you continue to believe in fairy tales and you want to bend all reality to your fairy tales of Jesus, may peace be on him, having been taken to heaven, while some one else was given his form and crucified on the cross.
Jesus of your imagination will now be 2013 years old, defying every thing we know about biology and aging, spoke a language, which hardly exists, lived in a time, when 3/4th of the Roman Empire were slaves, taught a religion, which does not exist any more, as it has been taken over by Pauline Christianity.
If he were to come in this world, since the industrial revolution, he will find nothing familiar, unable to communicate, even if he does not have severe memory loss, already.
Which planet does he live in by the way and are conditions conducive to supporting human life on that planet?
What divine purpose would sending of an at least 2013 year old person, excuse my language, demented and mute serve, which God could not achieve by appointing one of the billions present today as reformer?
Why does God have to destroy all laws of nature, of life and biology, to what end?
Sadly, you are being penny wise and pound foolish. Unfortunately, many Sunnis are stuck in nit picking and spliting hair, in the Ahmadiyya understanding, without analyzing the fairy tales that they carry with them.
What is even more unfortunate that many a Sunni Muslims bend their understanding of the Holy Quran around these fairy tales, making themselves a laughing stock of the world!
I think what could benefit all of us, from Jesus, may peace be on him, is his saying:
Ahmadiyya literature presents thirty verses from the Holy Quran to show that Jesus, may peace be on him, has died and is not alive.
Even if there were no verses our daily experience of billions dying in our own time should convince us that Jesus has died.
I hope you will excuse my shrill tone here as I was afraid without it you are likely to miss the point.
Your fairy tales include extraordinary claims and for extraordinary claims one should present extraordinary proofs and evidence and all you have to present is some misinterpretations of some Hadiths.
the intepretations of the quran by the Prophet (saw) and the sahabas of the relevant verse regarding the messiah states that the messiah isa ibn maryam was raised up alive and will return before the hour. The below link contains authentic ahadith about the return of isa ibn maryam;
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2076&Itemid=99
“And indeed, Jesus will be a sign of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.” [quran ch 43 vs61]
notice the prophet (saw) always refered to the return of the messiah as isa ibn maryam, hence he is the same messiah who will come back.
regarding the miracle of the return of the messiah; the quran and ahadith mention many miracles that are beyond natural laws.
Examples include the miracle birth of jesus, jesus healing those born blind, sulayman (as) speaking to birds and commanding the jinns, nuh (as) living for 950 years, moon being split, muhammad (saw) going from makkah to jerusalem and then to the heavens and coming back to makkah within a night, staff of moses turning to snake, the split of the red sea, zakariya’s wife giving birth to yahya at barren age and many other miracles.
To not believe in the miracles in the quran and ahadith shows lack of faith and opens the door to other problems. hw can any1 prove the concept of revelations, prophethood, existence of angels, jinns, heaven, hell and the hereafter??
Parvez
Sorry to hear that you do not know Urdu. Let me start off by linking, three debates on the issue at hand.
These have some indirect relevance and rather than argue about each individual point, I would first like to broaden the horizons of potential readers here, so that they will find this discussion fruitful, God willing.
So, here is the first link. I hope you will find the time to listen to these debates:
Three Videos: Debates about Jesus’ Crucifixion and ‘Resurrection’
The authentic ahadith and athar about the messiah in abu nu’aym book of trials, bukhari – book of signs of the hour clearly indicate the return of jesus the son of mary from heaven thus showing that isa was raised up alive.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=579&Itemid=59
regarding the verse ; “The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; other messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.”
it generally means that messengers have passed away before isa. it also means that no messengers are immortal.
regarding the other ayat; “And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily messengers have passed away before him. (The Holy Quran, 3:145)
its general and that all messengers will pass away. it does not mean that all messengers have died since some of the angels are mentioned in the quran as messengers. but all messegers that are alive will die near the hour such as jesus and all angels will die on day of judgment based upon ahadith. then all humans, jinn and angels will be raised up alive.
““Praise be to Allah, who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, who made the angels, messengers with wings….” [35:1]
hence not all messengers have died since there are some angels regarded as messengers.
bayhaqi reported that the prophet (saw) said ; “Allah saved isa ibn maryam and raised him upto the heavens.”
notice that the prophet always refered to the return of the messiah as isa ibn maryam showing that isa is the same messiah that will return. there is only one messiah.
@ zia
you are missing the real point. the main difference is not about jesus’ death but rather about the prophetic signs about the return of the messiah jesus the son of mary.
…
Parvez
We can talk about other issues in other threads. Mixing all of them up in one thread will neither help us nor any future readers.
This thread will be about Jesus’ life or death.
He has to be alive and well for a long journey to come back at an age of more than 2013 years.
So, please let us hear your arguments systematically about life of Jesus and as I promised I will give you other posts and threads for discussing other topics.
But, please follow some simple discipline of polite language and keep comments short and concise with links if needed and wait for a reply before commenting further.
Peace and Salam
talking about discipline…
Parvez
Let us start presenting the evidence for the case at hand.
Thanks for your candor and sincerity in serving truth and laying the case for the posterity.
ofcourse jesus is alive as mentioned in the quran and authentic ahadith.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2076&Itemid=99
“And indeed he, Jesus, is a portent of the Hour — [the arrival of] it is known by the sending down of him — so do not doubt it…” [43:61]
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=43&tAyahNo=61&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
also there are over 40 authentic ahadith that explicitly state that isa ibn maryam will descend from heaven alive.
and that he will pass away and be buried in madina.
the prophet (saw) met isa ibn maryam in 3rd heaven and isa said that he will return to earth to preach islam and defeat dajjal. …
Parvez is right according to what he has got with him. He believes in what he has got of the Quran and hadith even if the tranaslation of verses is not correct. But he is holding on to his type of translation and to his type of Ahadith.
If any Hadith is offered by us about Isa a.s. he does not believe in that for some reason. For instance, a Hadith was presented that the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. said, “If Moses and Jesus became alive, they would have no way except to follow me i.e. to follow in my foorsteps, i.e They would follow the Sharia of Muhammad s.a.w.s. (this hadith tells much about Jesus a.s.).
If another Hadith was shown that “There is no Mahdi except Isa”. It did not suit parvez sahib.
In the verse of the Quran, word Mutawaffeeka before rafi’ka, is sure enough to prove death before raising Isa to Himself. i.e. because, Mutawaffe, we see 24 times in Quran. It means passing away peacefully. It does not mean the body going to sky. But it means the soul only going to heavens. In sleep also, only the soul is atken. Body remains on bed. Then soul is returned to body on waking up.
We read the word “Tawaafa” 2 tmes in Salaat janazah. It means death there too.
So the material that Parvez sahib has got is guiding him at present, He has not got the other side story. It is best to tell Parvez sahib to read a book on the subject written by the Promised Masiha a.s. That will help very much, one way or the other.
There is no use debating, going around in circles.
Please ask parvez sahib about reading a book and send the same to him, in whatever language it is required.
Wassalam.
Dear Ghulam Sarwar Sahib, which book do you have in mind and I guess, Parvez can find it in our online library in Alislam.org
there are many ahadith that states the return of the messiah isa ibn maryam desecending from heaven; hence it proves that isa is alive in heaven.
…
Parvez is it possible that you decided to interpret those Hadith with your pre-conceived ideas? They only talk about some one coming and may or may not have other messages.
But, the Quran is very clear in so many verses that Jesus, may peace be on him, is deceased.
Otherwise, some times future prophecies have symbolic meanings.
Jews were awaiting for Elijah, literally, who according to their understanding had gone to heaven in a flying saucer.
Jesus, may peace be on him, when asked about that Elijah had to come before him, replied that John the Baptist is the Elijah.
In this age of Bing and Google, it will not be hard for you to find all these verses in the Bible.
May be we do not need to obsess over 2013 year old Jesus and in so doing new avenues of understanding may open up! Give this thought a chance in your mind, please.
The Miraculous Ascent of Jesus to the Skies.
The Quran mentions the ascent of Jesus to the skies, in the following verse :
“Remember when Allah said, “O Jesus! I shall take you and raise you to Myself and clear you of the falsehood of those who rejected faith and I shall make those who followed you superior to those who rejected faith, until the day of resurrection. Then you shall all return to Me and I will judge between you of the matters upon which you disputed.” 3/55.
Imam Qurtubi has explained this verse saying that the waw, meaning and, does not require tartib (the order of occurrence), thus the import of the verse will be, “I shall raise you to Me and clear you from those who rejected faith and I shall take you to myself after your descent from the skies.”
The first is that the word ‘Mutawaffiyka’ means “I shall take you, I shall take you away from those people towards Myself, by raising you to Me,” as the word tawaffi is used for taking and collecting, it is said in the context of Tawaffaytu Mali i.e. “I took back my belongings.”
The second view is that ‘Mutawaffiyka’ means “I shall send you to sleep,” as been used for sleep in the following verse also:
“He is the One who takes your soul by night and hath knowledge of all that you do in the day.” Quran, 6/60.
“They (The Jews) said in boast, “We killed Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah,” but they killed him not nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for a surety they killed him not, but Allah raised him up unto Himself, and Allah is exalted in power, wise.” 4/157-158
the context of the verses above clearly indicate that isa was raised up alive after being saved from the jews.
Parvez you write, “The Miraculous Ascent of Jesus to the Skies.”
Fourteen hundred year ago we looked up and saw a ceiling and called it “sky.” Now we know that it is a mental construction of when we look at billions of stars. There are so many galaxies etc. etc. There is no ceiling!
Could you be more specific and tell us, where is Jesus gone? Which star or galaxy?
I am not mocking, just making you think a little more precisely so that the locks of your mind may open up to a new way of looking at the reality.
Peace and Salam.
Allah knows best exactly where isa ibn maryam is now in heaven.
however there is a hadith stating that Muhammad (saw) met isa ibn maryam in 3rd heaven.
the 3rd heaven is beyond human reach. the quran says that the stars and galaxies that we know of are in the 1st heaven.
the prophet (saw) said; “isa ibn maryam will descend from haven near the end of time….” [bayhaqi]
Parvez but the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, met so many other prophets also during Miraj. So that is not a proof of Jesus’ life.
You say Jesus is in the third heaven. In other words he is not in this universe, you could not tell us the planet or the galaxy.
Perhaps he is in heaven with all the other deceased.
Do you know, if he comes back would he be a prophet, when he comes back?
Is the Arabic word Samaa (that is, Seen, Meem, Alif, and Hamzah), translated as Sky, used in any Authentic Hadeeth (that is, a Marfoo’ Muttasil Saheeh Hadeeth) in relation to the Nazool of Jesus (alaihissalaam)? I am not asking here, for now, about the interpretation of the Arabic word Nazool. I am asking about the actual Arabic word for Sky (Seen, Meem, Alif, and Hamzah, to be specific).
the prophet met isa during his ascension and isa said that he will return to earth before the hour. [musnad ahmad] thus proving that isa is alive.
also ibn abbas and abu huraira reported that prophet (saw) said that the messiah was raised up alive.[sunan an-nasa’i and ibn abi hatim]
Parvez are these actual Hadiths or you are making these up as you go along?
Please give Arabic if you have access and more precise details.
You did not answer my simple question, would Jesus be prophet, when he comes back?
the messiah isa ibn maryam is a prophet and messenger. but he won’t recieve another divine book that will abrogate the Quran. isa ibn maryam will follow the quran and the sunnah of prophet Muhammad (saw).
there is a hadith that states that the death of isa ibn maryam is in the future, thus proving that isa was raised up alive.
…
Parvez are you saying that it has been almost 1400 years that the Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, died and Jesus is alive and well.
Are you saying that Jesus is the last Prophet?
Prophet Muhammad is deceased and Jesus will come and live and then die, hence Jesus will be the last prophet.
Do you see it or do I need to repeat again?
Why are you contradicting your fundamental belief about finality of the prophethood?
i beleive what the quran and ahadith implie; which is that Muhammad (saw) is the last appointed prophet with the last divine book and last divine shariah. thus there is no contradiction for those who contemplate.
best way to look at the quran and ahadith is to reconcile everything that seems differing.
Parvez, unfortunately your reconciliation is creating a very awkward and unseemly position of bringing back a more than 2000 years old man, for no good reason.
Allah has sent 124,000 prophets and never before brought a 2000 year old. Never before He changed one man into another man. Never before or since He took anyone to paradise or heaven, while living. Never before He sent a prophet of one religion into another. The Quran says that the prophets speak the language of their people. Now you are proposing that Jesus, may peace be on him, would come back, when his language is almost extinct.
The Ahmadiyya reconciliation is far better and in keeping with Allah’s attributes and His previous Sunnah. We argue from the Quran that Jesus, may peace be on him is deceased. The finality of prophethood means that there is no new Law bringing prophet and that the second coming of Jesus, is metaphorical.
Just imagine this as one possible reconciliation and sleep over it for a few days and weeks and pray to Allah for enlightenment and guidance.
May Allah help us think straight and guide us to the Truth.
the prophet said that there is no prophet after thus indicating that there is no new appointed prophet after Muhammad (saw) that will come with a new shariah.
also the prophet said many times that messiah isa ibn maryam will come. the same jesus. there is only one jesus. thus this same jesus who was born to mary will come back again thus proving that jesus is alive now.
no where in any hadith did the prophet say that someone in a spirit of jesus, krisha, budda and others will come.
by the way wht do u mean by ur statement ‘Never before He sent a prophet of one religion into another’
ur statement contradicts the quran. the quran states that all prophets were muslims thus having one and the same religion.
http://youtu.be/mL-tioTrjyc
http://youtu.be/IvSSMwQZSH0
The words ‘last appointed’ in ‘Muhammad (saw) is the last appointed prophet’ are not in harmony with the Hadeeth in Saheeh Tirmidi:
قَالُوا يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَتَى وَجَبَتْ لَكَ النُّبُوَّةُ قَالَ وَآدَمُ بَيْنَ الرُّوحِ وَالْجَسَدِ
“They asked, O Rasool Allah (Messenger of Allah), when was Annabuwwat (The Prophethood) appointed for you? He said, when Adam was in between Arrooh (The Soul) and Aljasad (The Body).”
when muhammad (saw) was 40 years old then he became prophet and recieved the verse of quran.
thus there is no appointed prophet after Muhammad (saw)
This is a false distinction that Sunni Muslims sometimes make that a prophet, who is preserved in a freezer, excuse my language, some where for 2000 years can come, but there cannot be a new appointment.
A distinction of new or old appointment does not help those who are faced with the question of judging a claimant.
If a claimant is possible then every claimant will need, at least, an initial hearing. You cannot close the door, like you could if there was no possibility, whatsoever of an eligible claimant.
This is an artificial distinction, that Sunni apologists make to stick to their contradictory ideas. Their insistence that the Prophet Muhammad is the last prophet and yet they believe that Jesus will be coming centuries after the Prophet is deceased.
The Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, said that there is no new Law bringing prophet after him, but, there will be one Isa ibn Marayam.
Now that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has beautifully explained the prophecy in logical terms, why it cannot be the old Jesus, who died almost 2000 years ago, only a stubborn person is likely to stick to an old interpretation, which becomes so senseless in the new light and what science and technology has delivered us in the last two centuries.
Why should we give someone who lands with a parachute, a helicopter of sorts, or UFO, greater credence than some one who is living an honest and straight forward life in front of our eyes?
@zia
wht do u mean that a prophet is in a freezer. are u mocking the prophets of Allah. the quran clearly condenms those who mock His messengers.
you will be questioned about this on day of judgment
I can never think of mocking any prophet.
I am only trying to dramatically highlight your confused concepts.
Have you ever seen a 150 year old man? If not, how about someone 125 years old?
In biology there is something called aging process. I am a physician and am practicing medicine for the last 28 years.
To believe in a 2000 year old person, who is so special that he needed to be saved for a job, no one else was able to do, is to disbelieve in all of biology and medicine.
This is what I am trying to call your attention to.
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community does believe in miracles, but, we do not believe that Laws of nature are suspended. Unlike many other Muslims and most Christians, we have both our religion and science.
The Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Promised Messiah, may peace be on him, wrote in his book, Barkat Ul Dua:
By your beliefs, you change All Knowing and All Wise God, who gave us such profound laws of nature, which made our universe biophyllic, able to sustain and evolve life, into a juggling magician, who shows us one trick and then another, and look at the horizon, there you see a 2013 year old Jesus, flying down with a yellow parachute and look, a white minaret is pulling out from the ground and a laser beam is directing the descend.
But, is he a prophet or an agent of an intelligence agency, of a Western country, sent down to make a fool of the billion and a half Muslims?
I am sorry to say that you have made mockery of attributes of Allah.
quran mentions that prophet Nuh (as) lived for 950 years.
also other miracles are mentioned in quran and hadith:
Moses causes 12 springs to gush forth (2:60).
A man dies and is resurrected after 100 years
(2:259).
Abraham kills four birds and brings them back
to life (2:260).
Zechariah’s wife gives birth while infertile
(3:40).
Mary gives birth while being a virgin (3:47).
Jesus heals the blind, lepers (3:49).
angels descend to fight alongside the
prophet (3:125).
God speaks to Moses (4:164).
Jesus brings down a feast from heaven (5:112).
Moses turns his staff into a serpent (7:107).
Moses’ hand becomes pure white (7:108).
Abraham’s wife gives birth while beyond menstruation
(11:72).
The sleepers of the cave survive 309 years in
sleep (18:25).
Abraham survives being burned alive by the fire
turning cold (21:69).
Solomon commands the winds (21:81).
Moses parts the sea and saves the Children of
Israel (26:63).
Solomon speaks to the birds (27:16).
Solomon moves a palace across time and space
(27:40).
The moon was split [54:1]
prophet Muhammad (saw) went to jerusalem and then to the heavens and then came back to makkah within a night.
angel gibra’il (as) came to the prophet (saw) and his companions in a form of man.
hence there are miracles that go beyond science.
also other miracles such as jinn, hereafter and prophethood.
Some of the verses that you mention are indeed miracles, according to the Ahmadiyya understanding, but, we do not believe that they reflect breaking of the well established laws of nature. Sometimes, we may know the explanation and at other times we may not, but according to science and even according to the Holy Quran, laws of nature are constant, once precisely understood.
But, Parvez thanks for also tabulating most of your misunderstandings, in interpreting the Holy Quran, especially about the birds and someone coming alive a 100 years later.
This is exactly, why we needed a reformer in Islam. Prophet Abraham did not mince four birds and then restore them to life. This verse teaches us, how to convey God’s message, how to make genuine friends and influence people.
I intend to suspend this discussion here, until, I am able to link references or videos about the Prophet Abraham and the birds, by the previous spiritual head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad, in this thread.
So, please, be patient for a few days or weeks.
First a brief introduction about verses 2:260 and 2:261, counting Bismillah as the first verse, in Urdu, this covers both the verses about the alleged resurrection after 100 years and the Prophet Abraham and the birds, in Lesson number 30 of the following page:
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tarjumatul-quran/
@ zia
Refutation of those who disbelieve in miracles
Chapter 13 verse 38: “And it was not for a messenger to come with a sign except by permission of Allah. For every term is a decree.”
The Quran informs us about many miracles/evidences (aya/beyyinat) given to previous messengers, as extraordinary evidences for their extraordinary claims. However, many dogmatic sceptics or dogmatic followers of a particular teaching always managed to find excuses to blind themselves to those evidences and are too embarrassed to believe in miracles even though they believe in the hereafter, angels, jinns and revelations. They considered the miracles given to prophets to be magic, tricks, illusions or mythology. Some sects, perhaps because of their lack of appreciation of God’s power, tried very hard to deny the existence of miracles; they tried to transform them into natural events, or symbolic statements. Those who believe in the Quran will have no problem in accepting the examples of miracles given in the Quran. Miracles remove the doubts of those who sincerely seek for truth, and strengthen those who already acknowledged the message of Allah.
The purpose of the miracles mentioned in the Quran makes sense: to support their missions in their lifetime and to show us the ultimate goals of scientific and technological progress, and to inspire us to repeat them by acquiring the knowledge of divine laws embedded
in nature.
The Quran repeatedly informs us that Allah does not change His sunnah (law); and sending messengers with supporting miracles/signs has been God’s law.
for explanation on the miracle of Ibraheem (as); Abraham kills four birds and brings them back
to life (2:260). see the following link
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134
the other miracle ; A man dies and is resurrected after 100 years (2:259). see the below link
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=135
so its easy for Allah to have raised the messiah alive and return him to earth near the end of time. never did the Prophet (saw) say someone else by the character of isa will come but rather the messiah isa ibn maryam himself will return.
regarding the messiah;
http://islamicstudies.info/maarif.php?sura=3&verse=54
My dear Friends, the verse 2:260 is mch misnderstood as you will find it by my discssion with some Yemeni Arabs. read below, the translation and tafseer as given in Tafseer Ibne Katheer, mentioned by parvez sahib, above. parvez sahib has given the link. But I downloaded from there and I present the matter to you. It is very interesting case of misundrstanding the Quran.
﴿وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَهِيمُ رَبِّ أَرِنِى كَيْفَ تُحْىِ الْمَوْتَى قَالَ أَوَلَمْ تُؤْمِن قَالَ بَلَى وَلَـكِن لِّيَطْمَئِنَّ قَلْبِى قَالَ فَخُذْ أَرْبَعَةً مِّنَ الطَّيْرِ فَصُرْهُنَّ إِلَيْكَ ثُمَّ اجْعَلْ عَلَى كُلِّ جَبَلٍ مِّنْهُنَّ جُزْءًا ثُمَّ ادْعُهُنَّ يَأْتِينَكَ سَعْيًا وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ ﴾
(260. And (remember) when Ibrahim said, “My Lord! Show me how You give life to the dead.” He (Allah) said: “Do you not believe” He (Ibrahim) said: “Yes (I believe), but to be stronger in faith.” He said: “Take four birds, then cause them to incline towards you (then slaughter them, cut them into pieces), and then put a portion of them on every hill, and call them, they will come to you in haste. And know that Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.”) [Tafseer Ibne katheer]
﴿فَصُرْهُنَّ إِلَيْكَ﴾
(cause them to incline towards you) means, cut them to pieces. This is the explanation of Ibn `Abbas, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Abu Malik, Abu Al-Aswad Ad-Dili, Wahb bin Munabbih, Al-Hasan and As-Suddi. Therefore, Ibrahim caught four birds, slaughtered them, removed the feathers, tore the birds to pieces and mixed the pieces together. He then placed parts of these mixed pieces on four or seven hills. Ibn `Abbas said, “Ibrahim kept the heads of these birds in his hand. Next, Allah commanded Ibrahim to call the birds to him, and he did as Allah commanded him. Ibrahim witnessed the feathers, blood and flesh of these birds fly to each other, and the parts flew each to their bodies, until every bird came back to life and came walking at a fast pace towards Ibrahim, so that the example that Ibrahim was witnessing would become more impressive. Each bird came to collect its head from Ibrahim’s hand, and if he gave the bird another head the bird refused to accept it. When Ibrahim gave each bird its own head, the head was placed on its body by Allah’s leave and power. [Tafseer Ibne Katheer]
The above is the translation and tafseer of verse 2:260 from Tafseer Ibne katheer. Please note the words of the very famous Muslim persons who have explained the verse. They are Ibne Abbas and Ikrimah, Sajd bin Jubair, Abu Malik, Abu alaswad, Ad-Dili and many more.
I noted that none have referred the matter to the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. These are the words of some Scholars only. They are suggesting that the birds were to be killed and broken into pieces and then meat of those birds was to be put on the few mountains…..
I was on Waqf e Ardhi in Bay Point. I had a sudden encounter with a Yemeni Arab. I did not have much knowledge about the topic. The topic of discussion was about dead people coming back to life in this world. The two or three Arabs were there. They said that dead can become alive. They said even if Isa a.s. has died, he can become alive and come back in this world.
I gave reference of few verses of the Quran that the people who died cannot return,,, “Inna hum laa yarjioon” (verse 21:96). And also told them that “there is a Barzakh (curtain, obstruction) between this life and next life till the day of judgement. The dead cannot come back.” (Verse 23:101). Then the Arabs presented the verse 2:260 (2:261 for Ahmadis) and argued that Hazrat Abraham was told by Allah to “Take four birds and kill them and put their meat on different mountains, then call those birds. They will come flying to you.” They had support from Tafseer Ibne Katheer as shown above.
I told the Arabs that “ilaika” with “Surhunna” does not seem to kill them. It will mean kill them to yourself. That is not proper sentence. The discussion was discontinued there.
When I checked in tafseer kabeer of Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad Rz.a. I was surprised. The correct meaning of the verse was well explained there and reference of Arabic dictionary was also given that Surhunna means killing. But if there is any attachment with it, like “ilaika” etc. then it does not mean killing. It means teach them, train them, incline them to yourself, make them friendly with you….
The matter had become very clear. Then I pondered over the meaning of this verse and came to the following conclusion and I told it to the Arab friends on next visit:
1. No dead man was coming back to life in the time of Ibraheem a.s. And he had not seen any dead man coming back to life. So he could not ask Allah about how dead people become alive. The question as being understood by the scholars (and non Ahmadi maulvis) becomes invalid.
2. The question was about putting life into spiritually dead people, as explained in Ahmadiyah Tafseer Kabeer.
3. Ibraheem a.s. was given a big task by Allah to call people to the worship of One God (Allah). (Verse 22:27-28)
4. He found it a huge task and requested Allah to show him the way how it could be achieved. How new life can be put in spiritually dead people!
5. Allah told him that even the birds can be taught and trained to obey commands. It should not be difficult to train men by making them friendly, with love. They can be trained to become obedient.
After this, I wondered about those Muslim scholars, how they went adrift and could not grasp the right meaning of the verse. Did they not understand the Quran? Or some one has been cooking traditions in their names? Whatever the case, we have to be very careful about traditions. This is a good example for Parvez sahib to please try to understand the verses of the Quran.
I wanted to present this verse to parvez sahib. But he has done it himself by giving a link above. Thanks to him.
The right knowledge of the Quran has now been revealed (made public) through the Promised Messiah a.s. and his successors (Khulafa). Al Hamdu Lillah.
the following link has answers to the miracle of ibraheem (as).
http://islamicstudies.info/maarif.php?sura=2&verse=259
when the sahabas mention about the unseen then its raised to ahadith since they could only know such events from the holy prophet (saw).
In the text of tafseer ibne Katheer that i presented above, there was the following:
[(cause them to incline towards you) means, cut them to pieces. This is the explanation of Ibn `Abbas, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Abu Malik ]
Please see the words: (cause them to incline towards you) means, cut them to pieces. that is explanation of Ibne Abbas and Ikrimah….
Is it possible that inclining could be killing? Inclining towards you could means killing towards you?
May I know where that explanation of Ibne Abbas is recorded? In which book it is?
And how come the incline to yourself could mean kill them? I suppose this was told to Ibne Abbas by the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. and he conveyed it to us.
Let us say that there is no record of what the Prophet s.a.w.s. said on this subject. But we should have some record of the saying of Ibne Abbas and Ikrimah…..
I hope you will be having a reference with you. That will be helpful. You are making it a hadith, without the words from the prophet s.a.w.s. That is okay. But if it is a hadith, then it should be recorded some where.
Please help with that. Thank you.
I ask you a question. Did Ibraheem a.s. see any dead man becoming alive? Do you believe that dead persons can become alive and come back to this world again? Please give 2 simple answers. I want to know about your opinion as per Quran about it.
Refutation of those who disbelieve in miracles
Chapter 13 verse 38: “And it was not for a messenger to come with a sign except by permission of Allah. For every term is a decree.”
The Quran informs us about many miracles/evidences (aya/beyyinat) given to previous messengers, as extraordinary evidences for their extraordinary claims. However, many dogmatic sceptics or dogmatic followers of a particular teaching always managed to find excuses to blind themselves to those evidences and are too embarrassed to believe in miracles even though they believe in the hereafter, angels, jinns and revelations. They considered the miracles given to prophets to be magic, tricks, illusions or mythology. Some sects, perhaps because of their lack of appreciation of God’s power, tried very hard to deny the existence of miracles; they tried to transform them into natural events, or symbolic statements. Those who believe in the Quran will have no problem in accepting the examples of miracles given in the Quran. Miracles remove the doubts of those who sincerely seek for truth, and strengthen those who already acknowledged the message of Allah.
The purpose of the miracles mentioned in the Quran makes sense: to support their missions in their lifetime and to show us the ultimate goals of scientific and technological progress, and to inspire us to repeat them by acquiring the knowledge of divine laws embedded
in nature.
The Quran repeatedly informs us that Allah does not change His sunnah (law); and sending messengers with supporting miracles/signs has been God’s law.
Below is a list of miracles/signs mentioned in the Quran:
• Some of the Children of Israel are resurrected on
Earth after being killed (2:56).
• Moses causes 12 springs to gush forth (2:60).
• A man dies and is resurrected after 100 years (2:259).
• Abraham kills four birds and brings them back
to life (2:260).
• Zechariah’s wife gives birth while infertile (3:40).
• Mary gives birth while being a virgin (3:47).
• Jesus heals the blind, lepers (3:49).
• Angels descend to fight alongside the
prophet (3:125).
• God speaks to Moses (4:164).
• Moses turns his staff into a serpent (7:107).
• Moses’ hand becomes pure white (7:108).
when the sahabas mention about the unseen then its raised to ahadith since they could only know such events from the holy prophet (saw).
The Quran repeatedly informs us that Allah does not change His sunnah (law); and sending messengers with supporting miracles/signs has been God’s law.
for explanation on the miracle of Ibraheem (as); Abraham kills four birds and brings them back to life (2:260). see the following link
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134
the other miracle ; A man dies and is resurrected after 100 years (2:259). see the below link
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=135
so its easy for Allah to have raised the messiah alive and return him to earth near the end of time. never did the Prophet (saw) say someone else by the character of isa will come but rather the messiah isa ibn maryam himself will return.
regarding abraham’s miracle, ibn abbas’ commentary is far superior than any ahmadis. ibn kathir has mainly relied on tafsir tabari and tafsir ibn abi hatim as primary tafsir sources regarding the tafsir of ibn abbas.
the quran is clear that some people have come to life from the dead as proof of ressurection.
it seems that ahmadis are too embarassed to believe in miracles and dont acknowledge the power of Allah.
Parvez, I am sorry. You are wandering into miracles. You think that killing of birds was a miracle. I am surprised. Also you think I deny the miracles. That is wrong. We Ahmadis even believe in the miracles performed by the Pomised Messiah a.s.
The most important Hadith, by the oath of Allah, is telling us that:
Isa ibne Maryam will appear amongst us as a just Judge. He will break the cross and the kill the swine.
I hope that you believe this Hadith as true and can explain the breaking of the cross and killing of swine.
After you have done that, we will see that it is all symbolic, not real, not literal. Breaking cross means something else that is the failure of the church teachings.
Killing swine means the death of the sworn enemies (all such things are written in Sunni books.)
The promise was to the sahabah that Isa will appear amongst YOU as just judge. So he did not appear amongst them. So YOU also is not sahabah but it means the Ummah.
Can we see that all things are not same as described. Everything is having different meaning.
Out of four things, three have been shown to be symbolic. The only thing left is Isa a.s. Is that not symbolic? That is also symbolic and it does not mean that the old Isa a.s. will come back.
The Quran is promising death to Isa a.s. before being raised up to Allah. The raising to Allah is never in body. It is always after death.
Isa a.s. was a man of God. In Quran (chapter 7), Allah says “Feeha takhyauna wa feeha tamootoona, wa minha takhrujoon.”
Trans: In the earth you will live and in the earth you will die and from the earth you will be brought out.
when we are to live on the earth, how come Isa a.s. went to live in the sky! Did Allah forget his own rule, own promise, own teaching? Did Allah change his own Sunnah??
for those who disbleieve in miracles see;
http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single2/en_Book_Of_Evidences_Ibn_Kathir.pdf
more info regarding jesus ;
http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single2/en_prophet_jesus_in_quran.pdf
Whose miracle is being discussed here? I had written that we Ahmadis do not deny any miracle. But we do not believe in man made miracles.
What miracle is here about Isa a.s.? The only miracle is that he was put on the cross to die. But Allah saved him and he did not die on the cross. that is the only miracle.
He was seen walking and talking and travelling after coming down from the cross.
Maulvis do not even believe that their Jesus was put up on the cross. That is a balatant lie and that is to make a fool of all Muslims.
isa ibn maryam (as) was born without a father is a great miracle based upon quran ch 3, 4 and 19.
also quran states that isa healed those who were born blind and he healed those who had leprocy.
you are again taking literal meaning of all things. From your post it seems that Isa a.s. was a good doctor.
He did not heal any spiritually blind and dumb person.
the quran states clearly that isa ibn maryam healed those born blind. hence isa healed those who were physically born blind, nobody is born spiritually blind!
because the prophet (saw) everyone is born in fitra.
In the 1,433 years since the blessed Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم and his noble Companions radhiallahu ‘anhum made Hijra, the ummah has been blessed with esteemed personalities whom were strengthened by God to rejuvenate Islam beginning with the century after the Companions radhiallahu ‘anhum. This belief is sound and found in the following hadith narrated by Abu Hurayrah radhiallahu ‘anhu:
“Surely, Allah will send for this Ummah at the advent of every one hundred years a person (or persons) who will tajdeed [renew, revive, restore] for it its deen [religion].” (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37: Kitab al-Malahim [Battles], #4278
The great Imam Jalaluddin Al-Suyuti in his Mirqat al-Saud in the marginal notes of Sunan Abu Dawud records, “It is a consensus of the Muhadditheen (Hadith Masters) that this Hadith is Sahih.” The word “tajdeed” means the restoration of the original beliefs and practices after their being changed, distorted or forgotten. The person who carries out this exemplary and praiseworthy task is referred to as a mujaddid [reformer]. The definition of mujaddid is given as:
“Mujaddid: (Renewer)Muslim scholar who initiates tajdid (renewal). According to hadith, a mujaddid is to come at the beginning of each century to renew the faith and correct the practice of Muslims… back to the Islam of the early community as they interpret it, rejecting as innovations any later added practices or customs.” [ibn taymiya]
1st century Ibn Abbas (ra) or Umar Bin Abdul Aziz
2nd century Imam Shafi’i; Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal
3rd century Muhammmad Al-Bukhari or Abū Al-Hasan Alī Ibn Ismā’īl Al-Ash’arī
4th century Muhammad ibn Abd-Allah al-Hakim al-Nishaburi or Qazi Abu Bakr Baqilani
5th century Imam Al-Ghazali
6th century Ibn Qudamah or Al-Sayyid Abdul Qadir Jeelani
7th century Imam Ibn Taimiyyah
8th century Ibn Hajar Asqalani & Saleh Bin Umar
9th century Imam Suyuti
10th century Muhammad Tahir Gujrati
11th century Al-Sheikh Ahmad of Sirhand; Mujaddid Alf Thani
12th century Shah Wali Allah Muhaddath Dehlavi
13th century Muhammad Shawkani 14th century Muhammad Shanqati or Ahmad Shakir
2nd Century: Imam Abu ʿAbdullah Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi‘i (767/150 – 820/204 CE/AH)
“In the same way that the Prophet ‘Isa عليه السلام ascended to the heavens at Allah’s command, he will also return to Earth at Allah’s command and will enforce Islamic justice. People whose faith is weak may not regard this as possible. But it is an easy matter after recognizing the might of Allah.” (The Great Book of Scholarship of Shafi’i, Halil Günenç, expanded 2nd edition, p. 23)
3rd Century: Abū Al-Hasan Alī Ibn Ismā’īl Al-Ash’arī (874/260 – 936/324 CE/AH)
“There is a consensus among the community of the faithful [ijma’ ummat] that Jesus عليه السلام was raised alive to the heavens.” (Al-Ash’ari, Al-Ash’ari’s al-Ibana ‘an Usul al-Diyana, (Cairo: 1986), 2:115)
4th Century: Abu Abd-Allah Muhammad ibn Abd-Allah al-Hakim al-Nishaburi (933/321 – 1012/403 CE/AH)
[He is the author of the ahadith collection Al-Mustadrak in which he states that] “…Ibn Abbas رضي الله عنه said about the verse of the Holy Qur’an (4:159): “This verse is proof that Jesus عليه السلام, son of Mary, will appear… All of the People of the Book will believe in him before his death.”” (Al-Hakim, Al-Mustadrak, 2:309)
5th Century: Abū Hāmed Muhammad Ibn Muhammad Ghazālī (1058 CE – 1111/505 CE/AH)
“…then the Qur’an would be erased from hearts and not a word of it would be remembered; and the people would return to the poetry, songs, and tales of the pre-Islamic period; then the Anti-Christ would go forth and ‘Isa, the blessings and peace of God upon him, would descend to kill him. The hour when all this occurs would be like the pregnant woman in travail, waiting for the moment of her delivery.” (The Secrets of Pilgrimage, p.17)
“Out of the Prophets, Jesus Christ عليه السلام did not marry but he will marry after his second advent.” (The Revival of the Religious Sciences, Ihya Ulum Uddin, Secret of Marriages, p.21)
6th Century: ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani (1077 – 1166 CE)
“Jesus عليه السلام did not marry; he never took a wife. At the end of time, Allah (Exalted is He) will send him back down to the earth, and He will then marry him to a young woman of Quraish, who will bear him a son.” (Utterances of Shaikh ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani (Malfuzat): Collected Sayings from the Crown of Saints, translated by Muthar Holland, p.58)
7th Century: Ahmad Ibn Taymiyyah (1263 – 1328 CE)
“The verse [4:158] “He raised him to His Presence” … explains that Jesus عليه السلام was raised in both body and soul.” (Imam Ibn Taymiyya, Majmu’ Fatawa, trans. by Abdurrahman ibn Muhammad ibn Qasim al-Asimi an-Najdi, 4:323)
8th Century: Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani (1372/773 – 1448/852 CE/AH)
“The Mahdi is of this Ummah, and that Jesus عليه السلام will come down and pray behind him.” (Fath al-Baari, v.5, p.362)
“…there was no Prophet between Jesus عليه السلام and our Prophet [Muhammad], on whom peace and blessings of Allah and Jesus عليه السلام has no grave.” (Fath al-Baari 2/160, Kitabul Salaah)
9th Century: Jalaluddin Al-Suyuti (1445/849 – 1505/911 CE/AH)
“As-Suyuti says Jerusalem is specially honored by Moslems… It was at Jerusalem that the prophets sacrificed; that Jesus was born and spoke in the his cradle; and it was from Jerusalem that Jesus ascended to heaven; and it will be there that he will again descend.” (A Moslem Seeker After God, Samuel M. Zwemer, p.115)
In his commentary, al-Suyuti said, based on reliable hadith, that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did not die, and then continued: “In that case, Jesus عليه السلام was raised to the skies and will return before the Day of Judgment.” (Durr al-Manthur, 2:225-27)
“This word [kahlaan] expresses the fact that he (Jesus عليه السلام) will descend from the heavens before the Day of Judgment, because he was raised to the skies before attaining old age.” (Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Surah al-Ma’ida (5):110, 1:447)
11th Century: Rabbānī Shaykh Ahmad Al-Farūqī Al-Sirhindī Mujaddid Alf Thānī (1564 – 1624 CE)
“Jesus عليه السلام will descend from the sky and will be a member of Prophet Muhammad’s (may God bless him and grant him peace) community. In other words, he will be one of his people and will abide by the Divine law.” (Letters of Rabbani (Istanbul: 1977), 1:436, 545, 722, 820, 846)
12th Century: Shah Waliullah Dehlwi (1703 – 1762 CE)
“None of the People of the Book will remain without believing in him before he dies and Jesus will remain a witness unto them” [exegetical note] “The Jews present at the time of the descent of Jesus Christ will definitely believe in him.” (Fath ur Rahmaan Fee Tarjumatul Qura’an, 4:159)
Each one of these personalities, among them some of the most distinguished exemplars in Islam declared their belief in the ascension or descent of ‘Isa ibn Maryam عليه السلام.
“And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”” (The Holy Qur’an, Surah Al-Isra (17), Ayah 81)
“Our Lord, let not our hearts deviate after You have guided us and grant us from Yourself mercy. Indeed, You are the Bestower.” [Quran ch 3 vs 8]
[cf: Parvez, November 7, 2013 at 10:10 am]
In Soorah ‘AL-E-‘IMRAN’, Chapter 3 Verse 50, the Arabic word (الْاَكْمَهَ) can be translated as ‘the night-blind’. In the Arabic dictionary Lisaan Al-Arab (لسان العرب) an example is given, as (الأَكْمَهُ الذي يُبْصِرُ بالنهار ولا يُبْصِرُ بالليل). That is, ‘The one who sees in the day and does not see in the night’.
The text starting with ‘In the 1,433 years since’ and ending with ‘descent of ‘Isa ibn Maryam عليه السلام.’ (with the words ‘Person who’ replaced with ‘Muslim scholar’) appears to be copied, without any acknowledgement whatsoever, from a website hostile to Ahmadiyyah.