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Three Videos: Debates about Jesus’ Crucifixion and ‘Resurrection’

Epigraph:
And their (Jews of Jesus’ time) saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty. (Al Quran 4:158)

Empty Tomb in Resthaven Memorial Park in Texas, USA

Empty Tomb in Resthaven Memorial Park in Texas, USA

Written and Collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times

Was Jesus Crucified? Ahmed Deedat Vs Dr. Floyd E. Clark:

In this debate, whereas, Dr. Floyd E. Clark stays mostly off the subject and indulges in emotional rhetoric to preach to the converted, Ahmed Deedat despite being a Sunni Muslim realizes that Sunni position about Jesus’ crucifixion is not defensible, so he nicely orchestrates all the arguments, which the Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, the Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, had written from the Bible to establish that Jesus did not die on the cross.

The Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, had given the title to the Messiah, who was to come in Islam, ‘the one who will break the cross!’ So, Deedat’s use of his arguments is a compliment in disguise to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani’s writings.

Ehrman and Licona debate: The so called ‘facts’ about resurrection are merely contradictory hearsay:

Christian apologists try to use the label of ‘facts,’ to create credibility for the hearsay evidence that they present for resurrection. But, the ‘facts’ of one apologist differ in some ways from the ‘facts’ of another apologist and in this comparison we can see that all the evidence mounts to no more than hearsay.

The first apologist that I want to bring here as a witness is Michael Licona. He debated Prof. Bart Ehrman and was trying to prove the historic validity of resurrection, he had the first opening statement. He suggested three (so called) facts to make the sum total of his thesis:

1. Jesus’ death by crucifixion.
2. Sighting of Jesus by the Apostles after Crucifixion.
3. Sighting by Paul.

It turned out that the first fact was a red herring and had no relevance to the debate, as Ehrman simply refuted it by saying that Jesus did not have to be crucified but could have been drowned or died of cholera and could have been raised from the dead. So the first fact goes away fairly quickly and the other two ‘facts’ are in fact only one fact as these imply witnessing by certain people including Paul.

The only surviving ‘fact’ of our Christian apologist in this debate is also full of contradictions, which I have examined in another article titled: Easter: Can Resurrection of Jesus be Precisely Defined?

The first debate in this post also touches on this issue of spiritual versus physical body. What disciples witnessed was a physical body but what St. Paul proposed as he came on the scene twenty years later was a resurrection in a spiritual body! So much for the three ‘f

Let us now move to the so called ‘facts’ of William Lane Craig on the same topic in a different debate.

Did Jesus Rise From The Dead: Prof. Bart Ehrman Vs Prof. William Lane Craig:

William Lane Craig is a famous Christian apologist in USA. He makes a big deal out of the so called ‘fact’ of the empty tomb and its relevance to resurrection. His fact is easily negated by a little quote from Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI:

Jesus traveled the path of death right to the bitter and seemingly hopeless end in the tomb. Jesus’ tomb was evidently known. And here the question naturally arises: Did he remain in the tomb? Or was it empty after he had risen?
In modern theology this question has been extensively debated. Most commentators come to the conclusion that an empty tomb would not be enough to prove the Resurrection. If the tomb were indeed empty, there could be some other explanation for it. On this basis, the commentators conclude that the question of the empty tomb is immaterial and can therefore be ignored, which tends also to mean that it probably was not empty anyway, so at least a dispute with modern science over the possibility of bodily resurrection can be avoided. But at the basis of all this lies a distorted way of posing the question.
Naturally, the empty tomb as such does not prove the Resurrection. Mary Magdalene, in John’s account, found it empty and assumed that someone must have taken Jesus’ body away. The empty tomb is no proof of the Resurrection, that much is undeniable. Conversely, though, one might ask: Is the Resurrection compatible with the body remaining in the tomb? Can Jesus be risen if he is still lying in the tomb? What kind of resurrection would that be? Today, notions of resurrection have been developed for which the fate of the corpse is inconsequential. Yet the content of the Resurrection becomes so vague in the process that one must ask with what kind of reality we are dealing in this form of Christianity.
Be that as it may: Thomas Soding, Ulrich Wilckens, and others rightly point out that in Jerusalem at the time, the proclamation of the Resurrection would have been completely impossible if anyone had been able to point to a body lying in the tomb. To this extent, for the sake of posing the question correctly, we have to say that the empty tomb as such, while it cannot prove the Resurrection, is nevertheless a necessary condition for Resurrection faith, which was specifically concerned with the body and, consequently, with the whole of the person.

So, the punch-line is that the empty tomb does not prove resurrection hypothesis but may be necessary for considering such a hypothesis.

By comparing arguments of different Christian apologists, as they build case for resurrection by historical testimony, describing what happened on the fateful day of crucifixion of Jesus in Jerusalem, 2000 years ago, one can see their contradictions and the futility of their arguments.

In this information age it is just not tenable to formulate a religion on oral traditions of 2000 years old stories, transmitted to us through different means, collected in what came to be known as the New Testament, which has not been well preserved over time!

Categories: Catholicism, Catholics, Celebrations, Debate, Easter, Original Sin, Video

7 replies ›

  1. The Teaching about Jesus die on a cross or not?

    Bismilahirahmanirrahiim

    God told to Prophet Muhammad (saw).

    We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;― but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.― Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. QS 4; 157-158.

    Allah told in Bible.
    Allah said in Bible.
    The following are a few verses from the Bible on which Christian base their belief that Jesus was crucified on cross, that he died on that cross, and that day he was buried in a tomb that same day.

    John 19:38-42. Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.
    He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.
    At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.
    Matthew 28:5-7
    The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

    Based on above verses; the two great religions of Islam and Christianity diverge. Only Allah all knowing and all powerful.

    But according to Al Quran and Bible there was similarity that Jesus raised him up unto Himself.

    I urge all God’s followers to accept and respect the differences and love each other.

    All love

    Reply

  2. alatif you are a smart and learned man. We have a lot of video and other materials in the Muslim Times to show you that according to the Holy Quran and the Bible, Jesus did not die on the cross and he did not go out of our galaxy either.

    Let me suggest to you the following video for starters:

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6sUQHUYAg&w=460&h=270%5D

    Please see the remaining parts in Youtube.

    May I make one other suggestion. We should not simply dismiss evidence contrary to our world views, but, carefully examine it to learn new information.

    Kripkean Dogmatism: The Best Metaphor to Understand Religious Debates

    Reply

  3. @ Dear Zia Shah, Very very interesting….

    My faith based on His books;
    I do not buy what people said.

    From Al Quran.
    Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. QS 4; 157-158.

    From Bible.

    ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

    Those two verses of God are similarity.
    Jesus is alive in Heaven beside Allah with other prophets, they are not die in Heaven.

    (Pious people (taqwa) do not die, directly to heaven, without GOD in hizab in court with other human beings. And he lived and was given by GOD and eternal sustenance therein ).

    Hadits; Traders or businessmen who are honest and straight and their prophets and pious Muslims in heaven. Tirmidhi.

    Never take those killed in the way of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, well-provided, (169) Happy with what Allah has given them of His grace; QS 3;169

    ( it means that all prophets and those who got killed in battle during Muhammad’s time, are still alive, they did not die.)

    Do not say of those who are slain in the way of Allah that they are dead. Instead, they are alive, but you do not perceive. QS 2;154

    But Allah lifted him (JESUS ) towards Himself. Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. QS 4;158.

    THEN JESUS TELL TO HIS FOLLOWERS;

    He will come back on earth.

    Revelation 21:12″Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done

    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

    All prophets are alive in Heaven with Allah.
    but all prophet body become soil again. As Allah said;

    You were made from the soil, and you will become soil again” (Genesis 3.18-19.)

    Beside of all prophets and those who died in the battle during Muhammad’s time, and those pious (Muslim taqwa) will die. Their body will become soil again, and their spirits or (roh) will be saved by God in an unknown place.Their body and soul will be resurrected and then will face the God’s judgment on the Day of Judgement.

    But all prophets, pious Muslim (taqwa) and Honest trader will nor face the God’s judgement like other people.

    Can you see the differences ?

    THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE IN CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY AND MUSLIM COMMUNITY.

    Has Jesus already came back to earth?

    All love

    Reply

  5. @ dear Zia Shah.

    My faith based on His books;
    I do not buy what people said not base on His books.

    From Al Quran.
    Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. QS 4; 157-158.

    From Bible.

    ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

    Those two verses of God are similarity.
    Jesus is alive in Heaven beside Allah with other prophets.

    What is your opinion that
    1.Allah raised him up unto Himself
    2.Allah has risen from the dead.

    Dear Zia Shah.

    This is my suggestion to all Muslim according to Allah as following;

    In Al Quran, and Bible there are some verses which we can not understand clearly. Only Allah know it.

    He is the One who has revealed to you the Book (the Qur’an). Out of it there are verses that are Muhkamat (of established meaning), which are the principal verses of the Book, and some others are Mutashabihat (whose definite meanings are unknown). Now those who have perversity in their hearts go after such part of it as is mutashabih, seeking (to create) discord, and searching for its interpretation (that meets their desires), while no one knows its interpretation except Allah; QS 3;7

    Let we stop searching its interpretation that create discord or slander each other.

    Let God judge His people who is right and who is wrong. Islam brings peace to all mankind.

    All love

    Reply

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