Additional Reading
Alislam-eGazette Publishes an Historic Collection about Christianity: How Jesus Became God?
Categories: Catholic Church, Catholicism, Catholics, CHRISTIANITY, Video
Additional Reading
Alislam-eGazette Publishes an Historic Collection about Christianity: How Jesus Became God?
Categories: Catholic Church, Catholicism, Catholics, CHRISTIANITY, Video
The professor ignored a critical piece of information in the Bible which explains why Pilates may have made an exception of handing over the body of Jesus to his disciples. Pilates wife has a dream about Jesus, which made Pilates nervous about putting Jesus on the cross. He was stuck between the choice of carrying out the orders from higher authorities to put Jesus on the cross or easing the worries he felt because of his wife’s dream. Even if Pilates had no religious considerations, superstitions about personal well being are a powerful driving force.
Pilates planned so he could satisfy both the authorities and his “superstition” that something bad will happen to him if he crucifies Jesus.
He arranged a show to put Jesus on the cross at a time when according to Jewish law, he had to be taken down in a few hours as it was eve of Sabath So the time on cross was not long enough to cause death. Moreover his legs were not broken as was done to bodies taken off the cross. A soldier’s lance poke also cause blood to flow out, which does not happen in dead bodies. He was handed to the disciples, who received a living body which they nursed to wellness.
Jesus left the area quietly to avoid detection. He traveled toward India where according to historical records he had been earlier during his “missing years” from the Bible, nicely researched in following documentary: http://www.jesus-in-india-the-movie.com/
This would also fulfill Christ’s declared mission in the Bible that he had come for the “lost sheep” of Israel, i.e. the 10 exiled tribes who had migrated.
This explanation taken from the works of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s.) of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community provides a common sense explanation for many recorded events in Bible that seem unnecessary to fabricate to make up a resurrection story. For example there was no need to say Jesus was put in the tomb and was absent on the third day. It would have been more clever to say he was lifted from the cross, or that his disciples saw his body being lifted from the tomb. On the contrary, the events mentioned in the Bible are quite ordinary and in fact rely on the illogical leap of imagination to say Jesus was missing from the tomb thus he must have been risen.
Here is research on the topic by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadiah (a.s.):
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
The FACT that the RESURRECTION OF THE CHRIST shakes you guys to come with uploads from charlattans trying to prove a point that has been cut and dried and answered for for the last 2000 years just proves that you revel in flogging a dead horse.
“Before Abraham was I AM”, “The Son of Man is LORD OF THE SABBATH”, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father”, Jesus FORGAVE sins, something ONLY God can do. Finally “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up… but he spoke of the temple of HIS body” This prophesy of RAISING His life back from the dead was the sign that separates Him not only from all other religious leaders, but also from anyone else who has ever lived.
What more do you want?
I am sorry to say that your “facts,” about resurrection are merely hearsay and stories from 2000 years ago:
Was Jesus Crucified? Ahmed Deedat vs Dr. Floyd E. Clark
The Pope Benedict’s account of resurrection and the hearsay rule!
Zia Shah, the topic of this debate is “If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One? I have given you quotes from the NT and as usual you have diverted your car on the only road you know “DENYING THE RESURRECTION”.
Now please do not give the usual riposte that these quotes “have been added” over the years which is the usual escape route Muslims take when they are cornered.
You can misinterpret a few verses from the New Testament, but, the bulk of evidence shows that Jesus is son of man and not son of God.
Read the following two articles and then the whole book, which is linked in the second article:
Breaking News: Jesus Always Prayed to God the Father, Never to Himself or the Holy Ghost
How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee
When did Jesus say that he was god? Jesus preached only for 3 years. He was a Jew, a perfect Jew under the command of Jewish law. If Jesus had uttered any such word that he was god, he would ha e been caught very quickly and could not proceed even one day in his good work.
The church is giving unnecessary meanings to meaningless words of bible NT which say ” before Abraham, I am.” It s an incomplete meaningless sentence. We request the church to tell all the truth about Jesus to the poor followers.
Qudsia, the naivety of your post can be seen very clearly in your explanation is explanation from the works of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
Please could you ask the good Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to also explain how the disciples carried Jesus’ body through crowded streets packed by people for the Passover feast?
As for the “last poke” not blood but blood and water came out which has been explained by scientists as a phenomenon occuring in those crucified. So please ask the good Hazrat to kindly explain these points and not misinform.
If he does, I will have a few more pertinent ones for him.
Zia Shah, I do not know from where you pick up your “facts”. How stupid would Christians have to be TO NOT NOTICE if the Pope rejected the Resurrection?
Further suggest you go to
http://www.30giorni.it/articoli_id_77644_l3.htm
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1201428.htm
AND GET THE FACTS not HEARSAY
“You are trying to say that Pope Benedict reneged on the Resurrection” but according to one reviewer of the book “‘Jesus of Nazareth: Holy Week: From the entrance into Jerusalem to the Resurrection” Benedict brings to his study the vast learning of a brilliant scholar, the passionate searching of a great mind, and the deep compassion of a pastor’s heart. In the end, he dares readers to grapple with the meaning of Jesus’ life, teaching, death, and resurrection.
Jesus of Nazareth: Holy Week: From the Entrance into Jerusalem to the Resurrection challenges both believers and unbelievers TO DECIDE who Jesus of Nazareth is and what he means for them.”
What have you decided Zia Shah?
Ashok Saldanha, you have made a typical Christian apologist’s move, defending nonsense with some additional nonsense.
I am not presenting any facts about resurrection. I am challenging some of the “facts,” Christian apologists present for resurrection. These “facts” are often mutually contradictory, if you examine the “facts,” of one apologist against another.
William Lane Craig and others suggest empty tomb as a proof for resurrection and all I said and quoted was that Pope Benedict called empty tomb a necessity for resurrection and not a proof, as empty tomb can have many other explanations.
Zia Shah, you can sit and upload all the videos & papers regarding the nonsense that is the Resurrection of the Christ, but the Resurrection will still haunt you, because YOU KNOW IT IS A FACT and you are only denying it because right from birth you have been brought up to DENY IT by the koran.
The empty tomb is NOT ONLY PROOF but WHERE IS THE BODY is another proof which you detractors have not been able to shoot down.
Moreover over 500 people cannot hallucinate at the same time.
What you need Zia Shah is an Emmaus encounter, may be then you will change your way of thinking.
Zia Shah, I really love the way my links “defend nonsense with more nonsense” according to you. Yours is the typical Muslim attitude towards debate “My way or the highway”.
Regarding your 500 eye witnesses there are several things to be said.
Firstly, this all important event is not mentioned by Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.
Firstly Gospel of Mark. According to New International Version (NIV), when it comes to the last chapter of Gospel of Mark, which is numbered 16, The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20:
Gospel of Matthew ends with the following passage and has no mention of the 500 eyewitnesses. There is no climax to the resurrection or ascension story:
The last chapter of the Gospel of Luke mentions that Jesus, may peace be on him, was a prophet of God, but, no mention of the 500:
There is a lot more to be said about your 500, which I will develop from this debate by Bishop Spong:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXzu4tcOTI&w=480&h=275%5D
Zia Shah, for once you are right. There are many incidents in the life of Christ which are “missing” in one or the other Gospels. This is because the writers were addressing a particular community.
So one will not find what you expect even if it is “IMPORTANT” to you. If all the Gospels were the same and told the same story then there would be no need for 4 canonical Gospels.
But one thing is for sure THERE IS A COMMON THREAD RUNNING THROUGH ALL THE GOSPELS.
And How CONVENIENTLY YOU HAVE OMMITTED from the Gospel of Luke “Then He (Christ) said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.
……and when they returned back to the 11 (APOSTLES even here you misinform) no disciples (Jesus had many disciples – these 2 who encountered Him were some of them) THIS HAPPENED.
And they told (TO THE 11) what things were done in the way, and how He was known of them in THE BREAKING OF BREAD
And as they thus spoke, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said unto them, Peace be unto you.
But they were terrified, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
BEHOLD MY HANDS AND FEET, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for A SPIRIT HATH NO FLESH AND BONES, as you see me have.
And when He had thus spoken, He showed them His hands and His feet.
And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have you here any meat?
And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
And He took it, and did eat before them.
Zia Shah you can put up all the videos and so called experts, you will notice I do not use these crutches as you do. BUT PLEASE DO NOT MISINFORM just to prove a point.
You are proving our point. Jesus did not die on the cross and was very much alive when he ‘broke bread’ and ‘eat meat’ (before his departure / escape to Kashmir).
Zia Shah, just a thought but I think you are speaking against the koran and Mohammed because according to Mohammed’s koran Jesus “was taken to heaven and someone else was crucified in His place” so your going hammer and tongs to prove that the Resurrection is a “figment of the imagination” GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN & contradicts the truth that is there in the korar.
Rafiq, You must be right. Jesus did not die on the Cross since according to the few who post on this site, the beaten, broken, bleeding, scourged and nailed Christ was healed by Nicodemus with Aloe and herbs.
So it must be true given that you guys speak facts.
Rafiq, so he “escaped” / “departed” to Kashmir. Good news for Christians because apart from you, Zia Shah, Ghulam Sarwar and an assorted conglomerate of gullible people NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD BELIEVES THIS even though the BBC & the Indian Government made a noise about it. Wonder why?
Ashok sahib, if Jesus a.s. said, “Go to the world and preach the gospel.” How many gospels do you have?” Surely you mean the canonical gospel.
What you are preaching most is not gospel. It is the teaching of Paul. Why is that?
We believe that Jesus a.s. met his friends only. There is no mention in gospel about meeting 500 persons. He never appeared in public as he was legally a condemned man. Secrecy was very important.
If he was really a god, he should have gone back to Jerusalem and faced his enemies, the Jews, even should have visited Pilate too without any fear. What fear a god could have?
But you theory of man god and god man at same time confused every one about Jesus. We do not know he used to speak and preach as a god or as man. Surely when he was eating something, he was not god at that time! You people have made a mess out of a great person, Jesus I.e. a man of God, That is a man only and not God. Please do not complicate matters.
It is truth that Jesus a.s. went to Afghanistan and Kashmir in search of the lost sheep of Israel. That was his mission by his an words.
Ghulam Sarwar, by that argument about what is Gospel and what is teaching of Paul we can use the same yardstick and say there is no TAUHEED in the Quran so is that a figment of someones fertile imagination?
There were many witnesses to Jesus meeting them after His Resurrection. Why do you attack Paul, who clearly says that they were witnesses? The Gospels do not have everything about what Christ said and did. The Acts of the Apostles, and the various letters also give us a glimpse of the life of Christ.
Is anyone disputing that Jesus met his disciples after crucifixion? The ‘dispute’ between you and us is whether he ‘died and was resurrected’ or did not die at all. There are so many explanations given of the fact that Jesus did not die on the cross (but died a natural death later on). Here is one: https://www.shroud.com/ and here is another: http://www.tombofjesus.com/index.php/en/ and http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
Rafiq, YES, if you care to read the above posts we are disputing whether Jesus met His disciples. Read Ghulam Sarwar’s post. Muslims are averse to Christ and His Resurrection because the Quran says so, Think otherwise and things could get hot under the collar for them.
Just because Mohammed 650 years after the Crucifixion says Christ did not die on the Cross but “only seemed to do so” does not mean He didn’t.
The Qur’an is the Word of Allah – the creator of all of us and all the Universe.
Ghulam Sarwar, I am waiting for a reply on TAUHEED and the Quran. Do hope that you will reply so that we can carry the “teaching of Paul” to its logical conclusion.
Jesus did not die on the cross!
Was Jesus Crucified? Ahmed Deedat vs Dr. Floyd E. Clark
Gospel story of Jesus’ resurrection a source of deep rifts in Christian religion
The pagan roots of Easter
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
If Jesus did not die upon the cross: A study in evidence
The Last Supper: A Fiction Opposing the Account of Garden of Gethsemane
The Pope Benedict’s account of resurrection and the hearsay rule!
Did Jesus rise in a physical body or a spiritual one?
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross
Pastors Ordained by God to Demystify Christianity
Musalman, please note that even though word “Tauheed” is not in Quran yet the word “Wahid” is there in Quran which states clearly that the creator God is One.
Can you show me in gospel that there are three gods?
Ghulam Sarwar, First of all Wahid IS NOT the same as TAUHEED. So kindly stop playing with words.
Secondly, nowhere in the Gospels or in the teaching of the Church are 3 gods mentioned.
Thirdly, this “truth” about 3 gods (Father, Jesus and Mary) is a figment from the Quran which you believe to be the truth.
Zia Shah, you and the TMT have the most to gain from a FREE & OPEN EXCHANGE of ideas, including ideas critical of Islam. It is a fact that the VAST MAJORITY of world’s Muslims HAVE NEVER KNOWN FREEDOM and never will until they are able to raise their own voices to question and criticize and ASK FOR CHANGE FROM WITHIN Islam.
The INTERNET is one such source where freedom of thought can be expressed & not suppressed.
But that freedom comes at the price of submitting Islam to the criticism of non-Muslims as well instead of just a one way street.
Will you Zia Shah, miss the trees because of the wood?
Islam is open to discussion and we have been replying to all the allegations against Islam in a very peaceful manner.
At the same time, we point out some mysteries of the Church faith. There are discrepancies in the teachings of the church. When we accept criticism from the Christians and give suitable replies, we expect the Christians to do the same.
They find it difficult to respond.
Meaningless criticism of Islam has to be suppressed. WE cannot go on and on in circles. That would be a waste of time. There is a limit to what can be presented here on TMT and how many times the same thing can be shown.
If only the Christians could present anything good from the Bible, it would be welcome, such as “There is no compulsion in religion” and “Every soul shall carry its own burden”.
Christians are our leaders in compulsion in religion. The non_Ahmadi muslims are only few hundred years behind the Christians in all bad deeds. Ashok, we will welcome the wood with the good trees by their fruit. Otherwise your post is good and reasonable. Thank you.