Epigraph:
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
The mystery is that if Jesus came to die for our sins, why does he and others, endlessly, keep talking of salvation through deeds and actions and the Law, in the Holy Bible
Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times
It is old news, but, it seems that it has not reached millions of Christians. They still think that Jesus died for their sins.
So, I am afraid, I have to break this news again to them, by a collection of references from the Holy Bible.
All quotes are from the New International Version of the Bible. Jesus stressed the Law at the time of his legendary Sermon Mount. Our good deeds were and are all important and any magical belief in any myth or dogma, is not necessary:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20)
You will see that Jesus, repeatedly stresses our actions and the Law for our salvation and not some fake belief, in all four canonical Gospels.
Jesus, may peace be on him, profoundly sums up the whole of the Law in one line of the golden rule:
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12)
In the golden words of Sir Francis Bacon’s advice, read on, but, “Read not to contradict … but to weigh and consider.”
Jesus stresses repentance in the Gospel of Matthews, in the very beginning of his ministry:
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” (Matthew 4:17)
Jesus describes the the wise builders as those, who act on his teachings and the foolish builders, as those who ignore his teachings:
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash. (Matthew 7:24-27)
The same teaching is also mentioned in the Gospel of Luke:
Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete. (Luke 6:46-49)
John the Baptist, who in a way was spiritual superior of Jesus, as he baptized him, also stressed good deeds:
John’s clothes were made of camel’s hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. (Matthew 3:4-10)
The same is retold in the Gospel of Luke:
In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar—when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene— during the high-priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the wilderness. He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.
Every valley shall be filled in,
every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked roads shall become straight,
the rough ways smooth.
And all people will see God’s salvation.’”John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
“What should we do then?” the crowd asked.
John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.” (Luke 3:1-11)
The Book of James also stresses the Law and righteous deeds more than some magical belief:
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. (James 1:22-25)
And:
Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. (James 1:26-27)
The Gospel of Mark, also clarifies for us that unlike St Paul’s idea, the Law is not obsolete or futile, according to Jesus. In this incident, Jesus stresses the essence or spirit of the Law, over the letter of the Law:
So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?”he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” (Mark 7: 5-23)
Even in the Gospel of John, which was the last of the canonical Gospels, to be written, Jesus does not deny the Law of Moses, but, only tries to explain it better, when the Jews criticize him for healing someone on Sabbath:
Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” (John 7: 21-24)
Epilogue:
Here is my final quote from the book of James and this is the conclusion of my presentation also:
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. (James 2: 14-24)
"@The_MuslimTimes: Breaking News: Jesus Did Not Die for Our Sins
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Categories: Asia, Catholicism, Catholics, CHRISTIANITY, Highlight, Original Sin
Maa Shaw Allah. Very good words are presented. Thank you, Shah sahib.
Thank you my dear Ghulam Sarwar, for your kind words and useful comments that you post, in many of the posts.
Shah sahib, I had to write that because you had presented everything from the Holy Bible for the sake of all Muslims and Christians. The material is very useful, self explanatory, eye opener heart felt, from Jesus a.s. and from James the Just.
It tells the truth about salvation that salvation is through repentance. John the Baptist, Jesus a.s. and the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. all invited people to repent.
So where is the need for any blood sacrifice of the supposed son of God! That son of God is inviting people to repent. Al Hamdu Lillah.
I will, try to memorize the references, if not the whole text, Insha Allah.
Zia Shah,
What a funny article whose body has done nothing to prove the title. Let me start with John the Baptist whom you say “IN A WAY WAS SPIRITUAL SUPERIOR OF JESUS AS HE BAPTIZED HIM”.
To debunk that, one has to look at what John said about the Lord and himself.
In Matthew 3:11 he said “–BUT HE THAT COMETH AFTER ME IS MIGHTIER THAN I, WHOSE SHOE I AM NOT WORTHY TO BEAR: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, AND FIRE”.
:13 “BUT COMETH JESUS FROM GALILEE TO JORDAN UNTO JOHN TO BE BAPTIZED OF HIM”
:14 “BUT JOHN FORBADE HIM, SAYING, ‘SUFFER I HAVE NEED TO BE BAPTIZED OF THEE AND COMEST THOU TO ME?
:15 ” AND JESUS ANSWERING SAID UNTO HIM,’SUFFER IT TO BE SO FOR NOW: FOR THUS IT BECOMETH US TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. THEN HE SUFFERED HIM”.
The above shows that John only baptized Jesus because HE (THE LORD) wanted it to be so. It was purely an act of humility just as he demonstrated when He washed the feet of His disciples.
John told Nathaniel that JESUS “WAS THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKETH AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD”.
In America where you live, the Constitution demands that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has to inaugurate the President. Does that make the Chief Justice superior to the President? Who nominates the other for confirmation by the Senate?
Nothing is as bogus as claiming, as ‘breaking news’, that Jesus did not come to save anyone. In Matthew 1:21 it is recorded at the time of Jesus’ birth :”–FOR HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS”.
Jesus copiously said that HE was willingly going to lay down HIS life for the salvation of HIS flock.
… this rebuttal may not be posted for fear that the truth will come out. But that does not and will not deter me.
Namelee: I suppose the theory that Jesus died for our sins is the Mother of the Theory that the US can bomb Afghanistan and Iraq for the Saudi’s involvement in 9/11 ?
Namelee, if you think it is funny, share it with every Christian that you know to debunk the Muslim Times and stop being fearful of the Muslim Times, as we have only funny pursuits.
For your claims regarding John the Baptist, please read:
John the Baptist: A Witness against Pauline Dogma
The mystery is that if Jesus came to die for our sins, why does he and others, endlessly, keep talking of salvation through deeds and actions and the Law.
I just wanted to discuss one proof for my thesis in this article. There are several others. For example, Jesus did not die on the cross and you cannot be hanged for the murders that Taliban are committing, no matter how much God the Father loves you!
If you are a Protestant, you may remember a teaching:
Sola Fide, which is completely debunked by this article.
Rafiq,
What has America bombing Iraq and Afghanistan because of Saudi involvement in 9/11 got to do with Jesus as the Messiah?
It seems you have forgotten that Osama bin Laden boasted from Afghanistan how with only $500,000 he was able to inflict losses on the US economy that ran into trillion of dollars.
The American asked Umar to see reason and handover the criminal but he refused. That made him an accessory to the fact. What harm did America, especially the victims of those dastardly acts, do to him? Some members of his family were and are still living in America without being molested.
If the Americans had been trigger happy, would they not have held those bin Laden family members hostage?
Sadam Hussein brought destruction upon himself. He boasted that he had nuclear weapons to impress the rest of the world. Asked to surrendered them he dithered and dared the world. Do not forget that his sons in-law had confirmed that Iraq was working on those weapons. They were lured back to Baghdad and butchered.
A muhammadan scholar said that in a situation where somebody shows such flagrant disregard for world opinion, it was proper to go after him. He has himself to blame for whatever befell him and his family.
Zia Shah,
One thing I have noticed about this website is its regurgitation of issues to make them look fresh all the time.
We have discussed this issue of Jesus dying on the cross and I do remember that you refused to post my comments. I have always asked you to publish everything I post and let the reader be the judge. Rather than do that, you keep recycling topics to give a semblance of their going without answers. Now you are re-presenting it as a topic that has never been discussed before.
…
Namelee, rather than going off topic, stick to the argument that I have presented here, from the Bible.
Please do not bash Islam in general or confuse issues by trying to quote from the Holy Quran, in this post or change the focus to our moderation of the website.
The topic here is the mystery that if Jesus came to die for our sins, why does he and others, endlessly, keep talking of salvation through deeds and actions and the Law.
why are you people still babbling about Usama bin Laden and Saudis?
Who were those Israeli young men dancing and celebrating in New York and were subsequently arrested and released by Judge Michael Chertoff?
Who attacked World Trade Building #7? Please stop endorsing false propaganda
@namelee, Feb 20, 3:22 a.m. namelee may be right in saying that Jesus was greater than John the baptist. namelee is protesting about the OP where everything is given in black and white from the scripture. What meaning namelee wants to give to the original post (OP), namelee does not tell. Just complaining about the OP.
The OP is showing that John the Baptist and Jesus both preached repentance. That is clear from the Bible. Now namelee should present something to prove that the two great teachers did not teach repentance. Also namelee should not bring anything to downplay or contradict the words of the Bible.
I agree that Jesus was after all greater than many Jewish prophets. But he was under the command of Moses a.s. and under the law of Moses a.s. Jesus had come to strengthen the teachings of Torah. He was a Jew, son of a Jew and working for the Jews. He had not come to start a new faith. What namelee has to say about that?
The material in OP is clearly against Paul (saul of Tarsus). Paul is presenting something clearly against the teachings (and practice) of Jesus Christ a.s.
Present day Jews have been absolved (freed) from the blame of rejecting Jesus because the Christians themselves (and Church) has gone on the wrong track, quite against the real teachings of Jesus a.s.
The more the readers will read the OP, it will become clear to them that original teachings of Jesus were salvation by way of repentance. Jesus himself did not know that after he departed, he will be made a scapegoat for the sins of the world.
I am sure that whatever Zia sahib has written is gentle, true and not objectionable. But whatever I am writing now, due to objections from namelee, could be objectionable and bad for the Christian friends.
The matter of Jesus not dying on the cross had been discussed in fairness (under another topic) with more than 65 proofs from the scripture. namelee thinks justice was not done. That is not true. Everything was presented fairly. We read the arguments presented by namelee but there was no life (substance) in them.
In my above post, I forgot to mention your words:
[FOR HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS”.
Jesus copiously said that HE was willingly going to lay down HIS life for the salvation of HIS flock ]
That is true, Jesus had come to save the people from sinning. His mission was that people should keep away from sin. That is true.
It is also true that Jesus was willing to lay down HIS life for the salvation of HIS flock…
WE Muslims do not deny that. But to say that he willingly went to die on the Cross cannot be proved from the Bible because Jesus a.s. said about Judas (who betrayed him) that it was better that he (Judas) was not born. Jesus did not praise Judas, rather condemned him.
Also the prayer of Jesus in the garden to avoid the cup clearly tells us that he was against dying a cursed death on the Cross.
Ghulam Sarwar,
I your have read your very fantastic nothing. It reminds one of the proverbial ostrich which hides its head in the sand while exposing the rest of the body.
If Jesus did not die for the sins of the world, why does the quran in sura 3(imrans):45,55 call Him the ‘Messiah’? What does the word ‘Messiah’ mean? … There are at least four other of such references in the quran.
Answer that and then we shall proceed from there.
Namelee, the Holy Quran is talking about the Messiah that the Jews were waiting for and still are and not the ‘suffering Messiah’ of St. Paul’s invention.
Only way, strongly indoctrinated Christians will begin to see new light is, if they are able to avoid dogmatism.
Here is a suggestion:
Kripkean Dogmatism: The Best Metaphor to Understand Religious Debate
A christian friend of mine would say.
I noticed that you were quite careful to quote texts that never specifically talk about atonement, but which can be given an anti-atonement interpretation when taken out of context; meanwhile, you did not address any of the passages where Jesus did talk specifically about atonement, such as the following:
“I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.” (John 10:17–18)
“The Son of Man came … to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:28)
“This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28)
“Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name…’.” (Luke 24:46)
Interesting discussion. Namelee has very logical and valid points against the statement that John the Baptist may have been spiritually superior to Jesus. That statement perhaps was not well thought out.
However, the point of this article remains that the concept that Jesus (peace be on him) died to wipe the sins of his followers does not have weight according to Bible itself. According to which, besides ‘faith’ one also needs ‘good actions’ and adherence to the Law.
Where Jesus calls ‘law’ a curse, he may very well have been talking of the innovations introduced to the Law. The Holy Quran also speaks of burdensome restrictions people imposed in the name of religion, which God never commanded.
All prophets were means to salvation for people of their times. They are all sent by God for that precise purpose. Otherwise we’d have to admit that the “Christian God” had been very unfair to people born before Jesus, or even those in his time who did not know of him. With all the emphasis on salvation and God’s love for humanity, how could that be?
The ultimate salvation is with God only — the God that Jesus himself prayed to, and prayed to fervently during his days on this earth. In Islam too, it is not our actions but God’s sheer Grace which will bestow that salvation. It is also His sheer Grace which has given us laws through the prophets to show our obedience to Him through our insignificant and imperfect actions. God’s powers and majesty and His all-encompassing attribute of Graciousness does not require that an innocent man be crucified to forgive those who themselves are repentant and obedient to Him.
God says in the Holy Quran 6:164/465:
“Say, ‘Shall I seek a lord other than Allah, while He is the Lord of all things?’ And no soul acts but only against itself; nor does any bearer of burden bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord will be your return, and He will inform you of that wherein you used to differ.”
You seem to be promoting Christianity again by your deep interest in the scriptures.
Zia the good news then must be that Jesus died for your sins as well.
Jesus is waiting for you
MuzJee
The mystery is that if Jesus came to die for our sins, why does he and others, endlessly, keep talking of salvation through deeds and actions and the Law.
I just wanted to discuss one proof for my thesis in this article. There are several others. For example, Jesus did not die on the cross and you cannot be hanged for the murders that Taliban are committing, no matter how much God the Father loves you!
If you are a Protestant, you may remember a teaching:
Sola Fide, which is completely debunked by this article.
Since, as you say, every prophet came only for the people of his time,so Muhammad, who repeatedly said that he was sent with an Arabic quran to the Arabs who never had a prophet before, was also sent to the people of his time. He went on to extol his Quraish tribe as only those entitled to rule the caliphate. It will certainly be unfair to say that Muhammad was the last prophet(assuming that he was one) because there are millions of ‘peoples’ or tribes who are yet to have prophets from among them. I have not yet heard of a European or Chinese prophet.
Zia has spent so much capital on repentance arising from good works. While not discounting the importance of good works, they alone cannot secure salvation. The Prophet Isaiah says in chapter 64:6 that all our righteousness(good works) are like filthy rags before God. Repentance is a matter of faith. Neither the Lord nor the Apostles taught that good works alone will lead to repentance and ultimately salvation.
Muzjee has done a good job referencing passages where salvation through the Lord is clearly stated. I only have a few more to add.
That good works alone cannot procure salvation is further stressed by the Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Ephesians. In chapter 2:8-16 he says;
:8 FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELF: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.
“9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
:13 BUT NOW, IN CHRIST JESUS YE WHO SOMETIMES WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NIGH BY THE WORD OF CHRIST.
:14 FOR HE IS OUR PEACE, WHO HATH MADE BOTH ONE, AND HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
;15 HAVING ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH THE ENMITY, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; FOR TO MAKE IN HIMSELF TWAIN ONE NEW MAN, SO MAKING PEACE;
:16 AND THAT HE MIGHT RECONCILE BOTH UNTO GOD IN ONE BODY BY THE CROSS, HAVING SLAIN THE ENMITY THEREBY.
Salvation is through the finished work of Christ on the cross which has made the believer to be closer to God.
Among other passages where HE is quoted, St John quotes HIM in chapter 10:9 as saying “I AM THE DOOR: BY ME IF ANY MAN ENTERS IN, HE SHALL BE SAVED”.
In Acts of the Apostles, there was an incident involving St Peter and some others. It is recorded,
16:30 AND BROUGHT THEM OUT AND SAID, SIRS, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
:31 AND THEY(APOSTLES) SAID, BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED, AND THY HOUSE.
In Acts 2:21, there is a similar saying “AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT WHOEVER SHALL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED”.
Nothing is said about good works as a condition for making heaven. But the Christian is enjoined to do good works following the examples that the Lord Himself set. The Bible says that faith without work is dead. Every true believer must be his brother’s keeper such that if he has two coats and his brother has none, he has to give his brother one and keep one. In spite of that, salvation does not rest on good works.
There is a similar situation in muhammadanism. No matter what good work a muhammadan does, if he does not believe in the shahada or the muhammadn creed, he is not a muhammadan and paradise will certainly elude him. Believing the shahada is a matter of faith. I am aware that giving alms is a requirement. Still it is not sufficient. I am using the term ‘good work’ very reservedly knowing full well that it does not mean the same to the muhammadan.
There is a concerted effort by muhammadanism to down play the personality of Jesus. Apart from John the Baptize, whose conception and birth were announced to the parents, Jesus’ birth is the only one which is recorded in the quran. Even John’s birth was announced because he was to be the Lord’s forerunner.
Jesus changed the law of Moses. He was certainly above Moses for only God could do such a thing.
Writing to the Hebrews, St Paul said
11:24 BY FAITH MOSES, WHEN HE WAS COME TO YEARS, REFUSED TO BE CALLED THE SON OF PHARAOH’S DAUGHTER;
:25 CHOOSING RATHER TO SUFFER AFFLICTION WITH THE PEOPLE OF GOD, THAN TO ENJOY THE PLEASURES OF SIN FOR A SEASON;
:26 ESTEMMING THE REPROACH OF CHRIST GREATER RICHES THAN THE TREASURES IN EGYPT; FOR HE HAD RESPECT FOR THE RECOMPENSE OF THE REWARD.
In the Old Testament, Jesus is not directly mentioned. But in the passage above St Paul says that Moses treasured the reproach of Jesus more than the riches of Egypt.
In confirmation of this, the Lord had occasion to tell the Jews that before their father Abraham, HE(JESUS) had already existed.
Salvation is by HIM alone.
namelee has badly named the religion of Muslims as Muhammadanism. That is because his religion is named after a person i.e. Christ. So namelee is trying to drag Islam down so that both (Christianity and Islam) become even (equal).
Islam emphasizes on faith before good deeds. Yet says that even after good belief and good deeds, the salvation rests on the Grace of Allah.
We Muslims believe that true religion, since Adam a.s. has been Islam. That was the religion of all prophets, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It was Islam. Jesus preached peace i.e. Islam.
Namelee,
“Masiha” means “savior” Prophet Isa (pbuh) save the Jewish from sin by showing him the right path so that they would not sin, and not by suiciding on cross.
and please don’t give the reference from your corrupted and man made Bible.
for more information please visit http://www.Answering-Christianity.com
Namelee
If u don’t know the prophet of Europe and China than it is not the matter of worry, today many things we don’t know but it exist.
Keep on searching may ALLAH (swt) will guide u on right path.
Ghulam Sarwar,
If what you call ‘Islam’ was the religion of Adam, did he recite the shahada without mentioning Muhammad as the ‘prophet of allah’ when Muhamamd had not yet been born? Sheer self deceit.
Muhammadanism simply means ‘followers of Muhammad’.
I did not coin that, the founder of the movement did.
Bukhari 2:18:154 “O FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD! BY ALLAH: IF YOU KNEW WHAT I KNOW—“.
When he said that was he not aware of its meaning? He mentioned allah in the same statement. Why did he not say ‘followers of allah’? Do not try to alter what allah and its messenger had done for you are not capable of doing so.
…
Muhammad,
Thanks for the information on the European and Chinese prophets regardless of the fact that you did not name them or give information as to where they can be found.
However, the useful thing is that you have confirmed that all nations are entitled to their prophets. For that reason, Muhammad was not the last prophet. It is good to have that confirmation from somebody who bears his name.
namelee, you are twisting all facts. The name of our faith is written in the Quran as “ISLAM” at many places. You do not have the name of your faith (Christian) in the bible. Nor does bible tell in which language it was revealed and to whom it was revealed.
I met one Christian who argued with me that jesus was not given any book. That was a good way of him to get rid of the bible.
Yes, all nations are entitled to their prophets because Allah sent reminders (messengers) to all nations. That is the good teaching of Islam only. namelee does not have that much in his bible.
Muhammad s.a.w.s. is the last law bearing prophet. Now there will be no prophet who will not be follower of the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. Only the followers of the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. (and his law) will have status equal to a prophet.
The Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. had said, “If Moses and Jesus became alive today, they would have no recourse except to follow in my footsteps.”
Ghulam Sarwar,
You said that “YOU DO NOT HAVE THE NAME OF YOUR FAITH(CHRISTIAN) IN THE BIBLE”. Really? See these:
Acts of the Apostles 11:26 “–AND THE DISCIPLES WERE CALLED CHRISTIANS FIRST IN ANTIOCH”
Acts 26:28 “THEN AGRIPPA SAID TO PAUL, ALMOST THOU PERSUADED ME TO BE A CHRISTIAN
1 Peter 4:16 “YET IF ANY MAN SUFFER AS A CHRISTIAN, LET HIM NOT BE ASHAMED; BUT LET HIM GLORIFY GOD ON THIS BEHALF”.
Sometime ago you gave a very sound advice that before coming to a public forum such as this, one should be familiar with the text he wants to discuss. It can be seen that you abandoned that and went on to discuss the Bible which you are not conversant with.
If you say that the quran uses ‘islam’ to describe Muhammad’s creed, I have also shown you from the most authentic of your hadiths, which commands almost the same status as the quran, that Muhammad used the term ‘MUHAMMAD’S FOLLOWERS” to describe his adherents. Hence ‘muhammadanism or muhammadans’. What you should do is to show that the verse I quoted is not in the hadith Bukhari.
I do not know what type of book the ‘Christian’ you said you met said Jesus was not given. He came with more than a book. The atonement for sin is more than enough to cover all the books that can ever be published.
…
namelee, that is all your good beliefs about your good religion. We all know that gospels are on top of all in holy Bible. The rest is from Paul which is well known to be diverging completely from original teachings of Jesus a.s. Paul has no status at all with God almighty. He s not a man o God. We are concerned with words and teachings of Jesus a.s. only.
You do not have any proper book. Most of the Bible is Old testament and the rest is from paul. The real part (gospels, a small part) you do not read or present or care.
You have used some RAW references in both cases i.e. to prove your point that the word Christian is present in Bible. Similarly you had to run to a Hadith to prove the word Muhammadan. That was not good at all. When name of our faith is given in the Quran itself then why you run to a Hadith? It is like a drowning man catching at any straw that he can get hold of.
Even if your title is found in Paul’s scripture, it is no use. It is relating a religion to a person. i.e. Christ. (But all works are being done according to paul.)
Islam does not do that. Islam does not attach itself to a place or a person. It is a universal faith, as per its title i.e. Islam.
Please keep trying in your effort to reach the truth. But remember that when truth comes face to face with you then you please recognize it and do not let it go to waste. Thank you.
Ghulam Sarwar,
What you call ‘islam’ is described as one of the ‘Abrahamic religions’ or the religion of the people of the book’. Was Abraham not a human being?
Whenever something is brought out of the hadiths, muhammadans cry ‘foul’. The hadiths are said to be only the traditions of Muhammad spiced with those of his ‘rightly guided’ caliphs.
You people are commanded to follow the sunnah which cannot be found in the quran. They are in the hadiths. If you reject the hadiths, how do you follow the sunnah? What you can do to save your precarious situation is to denounce the hadiths. Ask the ulema to do so and wait for the reaction.
What St Paul taught was completely in consonance with what the Lord Himself and the other Apostles taught.I want you to point out the points of divergence. Paul carried on with what he found on ground.
If continuing with precedent is disadvantageous, then Muhammadans should rightly reject everything done by Muhammad’s successors. They were the ones who took muhammadanism outside its traditional enclave. The quran did not exist as a book during Muhammad’s time. He did not ask that it should be compiled. His followers decided to do that.
The descendants of Abu Sufyan established a dynasty which took Muhammad’s message beyond Palestine to North Africa and Persia. Their efforts should be condemned and muhammadanism rolled back because Abu Sufyan was at a time Muhammad’s mortal enemy. Zayid, in fighting to head the caliphate, had to wipe out the entire family of Muhammad’s grandson. The other grandson capitulated, denounced any claim to the caliphate and received money to go and enjoy with his more than 100 women. Could anything have been more damaging to Muhammad’s progeny? Yet muhammadans are reaping the fruits of Yazid’s expansionism notwithstanding the cost to Muhammad’s blood lineage.
You alleged that the name of my religion is not mentioned in the Holy Bible and I, once again, proved you wrong. References were made to several passages where Christians are mentioned.There will be no Christianity without Christians.
St Paul did not write the Acts of the Apostles. He is mentioned as one of the Apostles. Even if the Gospels are contained in one page, they are as effective and important as their making up whole libraries.
I have read the quran from cover to cover more than once. What is significant is the Biblical stories which are unintelligently plagiarized. Some muhammadans are honest enough to admit that the quran contains nothing new. Dr Ali Dashti says that whatever the quran teaches had been taught before from Confucius to Jesus. The only ‘miracle’ that has been associated with it, he holds, is that the ‘bringer’ used it to unify the Arabs and impose his will on them.
You mentioned, in an earlier comment, that ‘islam’ means ‘peace’. No! It means submission to the will of allah aka Muhammad whose birth name was Kotham.
I always challenge you to publish my comments without “moderation”. I do so again since we are engaging in intellectual discuss. Seeking to silence me in any form is an attempt to hide the truth out of the fear that it will be damaging to your cause.
The Bible, The Quran and Science: Is the Quran copied from the Bible?
namelee, you have got your post published and should never complain about that. You have opened new chapters of misinformation. Any one may have read the Quran but it has guidance for those who fear Allah, the God almighty. There is no guidance in the Quran for careless people.
You tried to run over to teachings of paul who had been an enemy of Jesus, had never met or submitted to Jesus, never walked with Jesus even one day. Abu Sufyan met Muhammad s.a.w.s. and gave obedience to the prophet in his lifetime.
Your Roman Christian soldiers picked fight with the Muslims and your forces were defeated. That is all politics. Jesus a.s. had said that whoever picks up a sword and uses it will be killed by the sword. That is what happened to your Roman soldiers.
You have entered into hadith without knowledge. I remind you that we respect the Hadith very much. But there are rules. We know that our Hadith is much more reliable than your gospel, which is a biography of your Jesus. The more you ask, the more you will be surprised.
Our hadith is a life record of our prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. Your gospel is also a brief record of what jesus said and did. But hadith is more accurate than gospel. Even the true names of the writers of gospel are not known.
The life of the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. is a practical translation of the Quran. Muhammad s.a.w.s. was a walking, talking Quran. Hadith comes after the Quran and the Sunnah and Hadith is to serve the Quran and Sunnah. Hadith cannot overtake (or override) the teachings of the Quran.
You namelee do not have a book. All you have is a biography. The Quran mentions itself at many places as a book. It was committed to writing in the life time of the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. That was never done in the case of your bible. Please note all these differences. We do not want to pick any quarrel with you. But you are always finding faults with Islam, mostly in a wrong way.
We are satisfied with the bible (gospel) with whatever we have because if we deny the gospel, then there is nothing with us from the man of God (Jesus a.s.)
I had to reply to your criticism because there are many other friends who are reading your posts. Thanks all the same.
Ghulam Sarawr,
You published my last comment without ‘moderation’. That is how it should be. Hopefully it will continue that way.
My friends are also reading this thread so I have to correct your misconceptions.
You are doubting the authors of the books of the Bible. If they were fictitious the quran would not have asked you to learn from the Jews and Christians whose book the Bible is. No sane person would want to learn from someone who is below him or rely on a book that has nothing to offer.
Between the Bible and the quran, it is the latter that has an uncertain origin. Muhammad gave various accounts of how he ‘received’ the quran; through inspiration, in his dream, through Gabriel, brought down by the lord himself during the ramadan which had existed as the pagan ‘holy month’, or from allah in paradise, where ‘the mother of the book’ is, during his miraj/mirage.
The content of the quran raises questions as to who actually wrote it. Muhammad was an illiterate who needed transcribers. They wrote what they felt but not necessarily what Muhammad said and he approved. Assuming that Muhammad heard from some god, the opinions of the scribes could not be attributed to that god. Yet, nothing was expunged.
Zayad’s compilation raises the question of authenticity as well. The source materials, which were all biodegradable, presented the problem of preservation. The reciters had been killed leaving only a few who were not included in Zayad’s committee.
When the work was done, it met so much criticism that Uthman had to burn the source materials, manuscripts and the other versions which were in circulation but said to have been nearer what Muhammad used to recite. Many verses were omitted while some were added. Among the critics were Aisha and ibn Masoud.
The final product incensed so many that Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr killed Uthman for ‘corrupting the word of Allah’. Abdullahi ibn Umar cautioned that “nobody should claim that he has the whole quran. For how does he know that it is the whole? He should only say that he has what is available”. In spite of such manifest flaws, that same codex is what muhammadans use and adore today.
The quran mentions allah having sent down a ‘book’. With our knowledge of what a book is, the quran was not a book until compiled under Uthman’s direction. Allah had the precedent of adopting and adapting things to suit its purpose. Because it talked about the earlier ‘revealed books'(which were physical objects), allah had to cloth the quran in the same description.
In referring to the hadiths, there is no mistake because they have the same canonical authority as the quran. Where there is lacuna in the quran, the hadiths fill the void. Suyuti, Shalabi, ibn Hazm and al-Shafi’i all agree that the hadiths, which were equally inspired, are equal to the quran. A quotation from an authentic hadith classified as ‘shahi’ is as good as the quran.
What brought us to this point is the argument by Zia and the rest of you that good works alone bring salvation. I say it is not so. Here is Bukhari 8:76:470 “ALLAH’S APOSTLE—SAID:’THE DEEDS OF ANYONE OF YOU WILL NOT SAVE(FROM THE FIRE OF HELL). THEY ASKED, “EVEN YOU(WILL NOT BE SAVED BY YOUR DEEDS), O ALLAH’S APOSTLE? HE SAID, ‘NOT EVEN I(WILL BE SAVED UNLESS AND UNTIL ALLAH BESTOWS HIS MERCY ON ME–‘”.
One strong evidence against the quran, is the admission by the Shiites that what is in circulation now has been corrupted. The Ahmadis concur with this by changing some of the verses in their version so that it becomes different.
St Paul was inspired to write his Epistles. He needed not to have worked or walked with the Lord before being inspired to write on him. Both of them were contemporaries notwithstanding that they may not have been any interaction between them.
Your bible is clearly the work of an enemy. Jesus a.s. had warned to beware of the wolf in sheep clothing. WE respect the bible (gospel). Quran was committed to writing in the life of the prophet s.a.w.s. The prophet checked all that the scribes wrote.
Moreover, the Quran was memorized by many followers and recited loudly during five daily prayers. The content cold be checked if there was any mistake.None of these things was done about the bible.
1. No writing. 2, No memorizing. 3. No recitation in prayers. Rather some one (paul) came and corrupted everything. He issued a new version of the bible.
“Ghulam Sarwar,
“YOUR BIBLE IS CLEARLY THE WORK OF AN ENEMY—WE RESPECT THE BIBLE—“.
That you respect the Bible shows that it has never been corrupted. Respecting the Bible is what your quran teaches you to do. How can anyone in his right mind be associated with, let alone respect, something which has been corrupted? Therefore, the talk of corrupting the Bible is mere speculation since nobody has been mentioned as the corrupter and when he corrupted it.
Whatever Muhammad approved was what he heard from the scribes. One of them said so and Muhammad marked him for elimination on entering Mecca but for intervention by one of Muhammad’s companions who was closely related to the scribe.
It is because the Bible is error proof that was why Muhammad said you should respect the earlier ‘revelations’ and learn from those who follow them.
Zia Shiah,the truth is that the more you publicise your arguments which is against Jesus Christ,the more you make it clearer whom you are and the spirit using you(antichrist spirit),and that Islam is not from The Almighty God,and allah is, MOST CERTAINLY,not the true God(Gens 1:1;Gens 6:5-8-22;Gens 12:1-3;Gens 17:1;Exd 3:6;1Tim 3:16;1Jn 4:1-6;1Jn 5:11-12).Satan has so filled your heart and blinded you that you have taken up arms(your arguments/posts)against God by contradicting His predestinated and accomplished plan of the redemption of human souls.Satan and his angels fougth against God and failed.(Rev 12:7-end).Zia Shah I certify you that you CAN NOT win God:Acts 9:5.
My arguments are not against Jesus Christ. I love him for he was an honorable prophet of God.
I am only trying to diffuse the spin that St. Paul put on the attempted crucifixion of Jesus, may peace be on him.
Br.Gabriel all Jews do not believe that Jesus was God. They do not believe that he was a good man. They say he was an impostor, a fraud.
The Muslims ( 1.6 billion Muslims in the world) all think and believe that Jesus was a true and faithful man of God. i.e. a prophet under the command of Moses a.s. That he was not God but he was a man sent by God and Jesus was supported by the holy Spirit. ( he needed that support.)
Take Christians now, about 2 billion in the world. Not all believe that Jesus was God Almighty. There are many sensible persons (Christians, Unitarians, JW) who do not believe that Jesus was God.
Out of these 2 billions, all Christians believe that there is One God. You also believe that God is One. That is part of your belief. So all Christians come and share the belief of the Jews and the Muslims.
Please note that including your lot, the Jews and the Muslims, all believe that there is One God.
The rest of the world (about 3 billion) does not know about Jesus. They do not believe in him and do not care.
So all together about 5 or 6 billion people do not believe that Jesus is God. The Jews are against Jesus. Only the Muslims (whose God, Allah, you are abusing) believe that Jesus was a good man and a man from God. But you are not satisfied.
Please note that the Muslims love for Jesus is real. Our love for Jesus is true and justified and nobody can take away that love of Jesus and his mother from our heart.
I know that many Christians are misusing the love of Jesus for their malafide purposes. Muslims will never fall into that trap.
Muslims believe that Jesus a.s. used to pray to God Almighty. He was given the right message which was much later transcribed into a book called bible. He had the right knowledge and gave that knowledge to his disciples who stood by him all the time till the end.
But the present copy of the bible blames the disciples that they all fled the scene and even cursed Jesus a.s. The present bibleNT does not mention much about the mother of Jesus a.s. (except a few sentences, on or two.)
We can assure you that our love for Jesus a.s. and his mother and Bible is real.
I posted a comment yesterday(Monday,10th March,2014)but it was not published!?I thought you people said you love Jesus and thath all Muslims do?There is NOTHING you can do to quench the voice and the power and the authority of the word of God and the blood and the name of Jesus Christ in my posts and of others that are in Christ Jesus our Lord,Saviour and God.Wherever you(TMT or her editor or whomsoever)has thrown it The Lord is there even if it was deleted.Psm 29;Exd 19:16-20;Heb 12:24.Jesus died for our sins and for the sin of Adam and Eve.
Jesus a.s. was just one word from Allah to mother Mary a.s. There are million and billion words of God. In the last few verses of chapter 18 of Quran, Allah says:
“If the ocean became ink for writing all the Words of the Lord, the ocean will fall short of its ink even it was aided by another ocean.” (Approx translation)
We Muslims believe that Jesus a.s. was a word (even a sentence, because he is called a Kalimah), i.e. more than a word from Allah. It was a message to his mother Mary.
Jesus a.s. has been described in the Quran as:
1. A collection of Words from Allah (kalimat u Allah).
2. Mercy from Allah (ch.19)
3. A sign or command from Allah. Ayatullah.(ch.19)
4. Prophet of Allah. (ch.19)
5. Messenger from Allah i.e. Rasool u Allah.
Ghulam Sarwar,
In your penultimate post you said that “THE PRESENT BIBLE DOES NOT SAY MUCH ABOUT MARY, THE MOTHER OF JESUS”.
Muhammad had two mothers, Amina, the biological mother and Halima, the suckling mother. I have perused all the versions of the quran at my disposal without seeing any mention of the two women. If mentioning Mary a few times is an offense, not mentioning Amina and Halima at all is not just a catastrophe …
Ghulam Sarawr,
Your word is part of you. Without the ability to speak one is incomplete. A man is born with it and they are inseparable. He does not manufacture or buy it. The word is and will always be with man.
God’s Word is, has always been and will forever be with HIM. The same applies to the spirit.
The whole of chapter 47 of the quran is devoted to Muhammad. Yet allah, his own creation, has not referred to him as “a Word from God” in spite of the lofty opinion allah has of him. I may be missing something. Is there any verse of the quran where allah refers to another person as “A SPIRIT FROM US”?
If there is none, as it is the case, then it is futile to argue that Jesus and God are not one and the same, assuming that allah is God.
Christian atonement has no foundation in the Old Testament
Read the first 29 verses of Ezekiel 18 (New International Version):
The word of the LORD came to me: “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
“‘The parents eat sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.
“Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife
or have sexual relations with a woman during her period.
He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
He does not lend to them at interest
or take a profit from them.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between two parties.
He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign LORD.
“Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things (though the father has done none of them):
“He eats at the mountain shrines.
He defiles his neighbor’s wife.
He oppresses the poor and needy.
He commits robbery.
He does not return what he took in pledge.
He looks to the idols.
He does detestable things.
He lends at interest and takes a profit.
Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he is to be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
“But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:
“He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife.
He does not oppress anyone
or require a pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
He withholds his hand from mistreating the poor
and takes no interest or profit from them.
He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.
He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live. But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
“Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust? (Ezekiel 18:1-29)
For a dramatic presentation of the details watch the following debate of Ahmed Dedat against Bishop General Wakefield in Toronto:
Ghulam Sarwar,
Your question is answered by Bukhari 4:54:506 “- THE PROPHET SAID, ‘WHEN ANY HUMAN BEING IS BORN, SATAN TOUCHES HIM AT BOTH SIDES WITH HIS TWO FINGERS, EXCEPT JESUS, SON OF MARY, WHOM SATAN TRIED TO TOUCH BUT FAILED– ‘”.
Satan, according to your teaching, touches every human being at birth. Why? Because of the very sinful nature of man from conception. Satan, again, according to your teaching, failed to touch Jesus. Why? Because HE alone was born without sin.
Christianity depends on Resurrection and that depends on 2000 years old stories
St. Paul was most effective in crystallizing and preaching the stories of resurrection and claim that Jesus died for our sins. He fully understood the strengths and limitations of his preachings and he shared those with us candidly:
Most Christians fully realize that their religion is founded on resurrection and that is why the celebration of Easter and constant study and debate about the details surrounding the Jesus’ last Good Friday in Jerusalem.
John Shelby Spong, a retired Bishop, explains in his book, Resurrection: Myth or Reality?:
How and when these stories were collected that later came to be known as Gospels, is known to many now, but, for a quick summary let us turn to the learned Bishop again:
Resurrection story is fraught with numerous internal contradictions, especially when we look at it with the claim made that it is described by eye-witnesses. The learned Bishop explains:
Because of the importance of this subject to bring the two billion Christians and 1.8 billion Muslims and 15 million Jews on the same page and similar understanding of our Transcendent God of the Abrahamic faiths, the Muslim Times has several posts on the issues pertaining to resurrection:
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
Did Jesus rise in a physical body or a spiritual one?
Which means we must praise Allah, Subhann’Allah, Alhumdililah, Allah hu Akbar. Follow the 5 pillars, not eat pork, any food that takes blood in cooking it or bloody meats, not worship idols or drink intoxicates. Inshallah we will all follow the correct way that all profets have givin there lives to transcend to us all, humanity, Allah’s most loved delicate miracle, but for him, he just says be, and it is. There can’t be excuses on sinning or drinking like I see, in just believing that it will be forgiven by Christ, there has to be Wudu and cleanliness. To pass gas losses the purification of prayer experience to Allah, every water has focets, alhumdulilallah, be purified, BELIVE, in centuries past, before profet Muhamed, SAW, came with the way, submission to the supreme, Islam, what all profits enfesised, people were not even bathing. 100 years of uncleanliness, there can not be such faith, There had to be the new order. To complete the receiving, inshallah, of Allah’s grace to mankind. Alhumdulilallah .
Sorry, every mosque has focets, correction above, and Gods most delicate and loved creation, Us, Humans, from a drop, Alhumdulilallah, no one can do this but him, please recognize. Inshallah.
I missed two posts of namelee of March 12 and May 2. Here I address namelee about the word was with God and the word was God. It means word and God were two different things. Then how could the word become God? Is there anything of that in Old Testament which the Church attaches with the New Testament? Surely church has distanced from the original true teachings.
According to namelee the word is with man so the word is man. What a complicated and secret preaching of the church!
Ghulam Sarwar. Do not bother trying to understand. It is impossible for us.
Thanks to namelee for raising the question about an important Hadith which namelee has not presented properly (partly due to the misquotation of that Hadith by Parvez on this forum.)
Here is that Hadith:
The prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. said, “There is no new born whom the dare devil does not smack and he cries except Jesus and his mother (Mary).”
I have presented that Hadith. Now namelee is free to comment on that Hadith and others may also come along and give their opinion. This is a true statement from the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s.
Welcome.
9. Pilate delays in judgment
Pilate intentionally delayed in giving his verdict and did not deliver his judgment until and unless he was sure that due to the Sabbath, Jesus would be on the cross for only a few hours. Jesus a thirty-three years young person was on the cross for only few (3-6) hours.
Salam, so was Jesus crucified? Some say he neither died or was crucified, how does this say he was on the cross for a few hours,? May you answer me inshallah.
This is part of the 65 reasons Jesus did not die on the cross, was it a look alike or was it Jesus, peace be upon him.
Read more: http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/04/religion/christianity/65-reasons-to-believe-jesus-did-not-die-on-the-cross#ixzz3505RLaHw
Did Allah take him up before in the garden? Or after when he returned from prayer and the look alike which could have been judas, died on the cross? And Jesus, peace upon him appeared and the women did not recognize him, meaning it was a diferent person they that knew him saw on the cross and said nothing ? Shukra your attention
This is 65 reason Jesus did not die on the cross from the christian and bible point of view, is it not? Alhumdulilallah !
If God saved him before and it was a look alike, how was Jesus said to be on the cross a few hours here? I’m a recent Muslim.
Dear Mansor, please check out the library on http://www.alislam.org. Inshallah you will find many books of interest, including on the topic of Jesus’s life and death.