Epigraph: “An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarised with the ideas from the beginning.” Max Planck
“What is true about science in the above quote is certainly true for religious doctrine.” Zia Shah
The debate took place in 1999:
You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. ‘Good teacher,’ he asked, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ ‘Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good—except God. alone.’ (Mark 10:17-18)
If Jesus had only one nature then James White could have argued, in still some what twisted fashion that Jesus was Eternal Son of God. But, he has two natures according to the standard Trinitarian teaching, perfect man and fully divine. So, as long as we do not let the Trinitarians twist or substitute Jesus’ virgin birth to mother Mary around 1 AD, we have more than enough reason to believe that Jesus is not eternal. By calling him perfect man the Christians are trapped into the world of Nazareth and Jerusalem of the first century and Jesus is locked in time as well. There is no sensible or reasonable wrangling out of this knot. If Jesus was only divine and not human then all bets would have been off and he could have been Eternal and the Creator of the world at the same time and manifest himself where and when he pleased.
Part two starts with the presentation of the non-Trinitarian Christian, who still believes Jesus to be God, but makes an excellent presentation against Trinity based on the life history of Michael Servetus:
The Muslims feel especially blessed, when we see the Christians struggling with issues that are intuitively obvious to us, almost self evident, because we have been drinking from the fountain of the Holy Quran, which gives us a better understanding of Oneness of God and His attributes than the longish formulations and debates by the Christian theologians for 17 centuries, since the Council of Nicaea.
In medieval times the Muslims debated about nature of Muhammad, may peace be on him, but, never raised him to be God. They continue to debate whether a sub-ordinate prophet can come after him or not, but, they never debated about the nature or essence of God, thanks to the elegance of the text of the Holy Quran and Allah’s blessings of having preserved it precisely, over the centuries, literally, as well as in the understanding of its teachings.
Categories: Americas, CHRISTIANITY
The Relationship between the Father and Son and Holy Spirit is a dynamic One. There are three persons in One God and this dynamic relationship is like a whirl wind. When Jesus spoke of His Relationship with His Father He was so caught up in the love that came between them.
It is a real stumbling block for Muslims. They can’t get it. As a Catholic my Pope Francis loves you and so do I. Only by being caught up in the great love Triangle this wonderful divine mystery will become clear. Words are silenced. Be still and know that I am God Says the Father. I want to catch you up in love.
The best known description of Trinity in the Bible was a later interpolation, this is now increasingly recognized by the Christians themselves.
In King James Version we read, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (1 John 5:7)
This was originally a side note by a scribe for personal use and in the next rendering it crept into the text of the Bible.
As proof, here is a footnote from New International Version (NIV) from 1 John 5:
“My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:29-30) needs to be read in the context
Sorry you lost me. What is a footnote got to do with the Dynamic flowing out pouring of the love between Father Son and Holy Spirit?
The love that spills out and touches the whole of humanity.
Be still my brother, and listen to God speak to you.
These Truths are even hidden from the world wise and knowledgeable and discernible by children.
Mike
My previous comments were to catalog additional arguments to show that Trinity is only a figment of imagination and I had linked a debate about divinity of Jesus between Ahmad Deedat and a Christian apologist.
I hope many Christian and agnostic viewers, coming from the Christian background, will enjoy that debate and learn from it.
But, tell me something.
How do you know of this dynamic flowing of love and how is it different from flowing of love between other prophets of God and God the Father?
Jesus went to heaven with a glorified body. and there, a Father God still in nature of Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is in the hearts of the followers of Christ. there are three, isn’t it?