Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times
The seventy some books of the Bible got into the canon, sacred collection of books to make the Bible, not by divine revelation, but by human vote and the Bibles of different denominations have some what different books. The book with the title of ‘Revelation,’ was not universally accepted in all canons until the 16th century.
No lesser authority than Martin Luther himself, wanted the book of James, taken out of the canon. So, it is not out of the realm of possibilities for me to raise the question of getting Psalms out of the Old Testaments of our Christian brothers and sisters, coming from Trinitarian tradition.
As the Prophet or King David glorifies God and sings His hymns in Psalm after Psalm, according to the Trinitarian Christian understanding, it carries little weight, as he does not know the Triune God of Trinitarian Christianity!
King David was 700 years before Jesus, so naturally he did not know anything about Jesus, may peace be on him. If God is Triune then David’s scholarship, worship and glorification of God is seriously deficient and the Psalms have no place in the Christian Bible and should be taken out.
This was certainly the view of an earlier Christian, Marcion, as he did not include Old Testament in his canon of sacred books.
It was actually his collection that gave the predecessors of the present day Trinitarian tradition, sometimes referred to as proto-orthodox Christians, to make a canon or a collection of sacred books.
If we examine these issues logically, Marcion’s opinion makes far more sense than the contradictory Trinitarian Christian theology and their collection of the Old Testament or pure Unitarianism along with the letters of Paul and Gospel of John, from which ‘divinity’ of Jesus, may peace be on him, is derived, in the same volume or canon.
I will now quote some of David’s beautiful Psalms, in praise of One True God, who is God the Father in the Trinitarian tradition, in this post.
Here is Psalm 34 from New International Version (NIV):
I will extol the LORD at all times; his praise will always be on my lips. I will glory in the LORD; let the afflicted hear and rejoice. Glorify the LORD with me; let us exalt his name together.
I sought the LORD, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears. Those who look to him are radiant; their faces are never covered with shame. This poor man called, and the LORD heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles. The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.
Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him. Fear the LORD, you his holy people, for those who fear him lack nothing. The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing. Come, my children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD. Whoever of you loves life and desires to see many good days, keep your tongue from evil and your lips from telling lies. Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, and his ears are attentive to their cry; but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to blot out their name from the earth.
The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.
The righteous person may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
Evil will slay the wicked; the foes of the righteous will be condemned. The LORD will rescue his servants; no one who takes refuge in him will be condemned.
I find this and many other Psalms very sublime, pure and true and one reason being that it rhymes with many a verses of the Holy Quran.
I personally believe that Psalms are wonderful and direct our attention to the True, Unitarian God, who is God the Father in the Trinitarian tradition.
I ask this question of taking the Psalms out, not literally, but, only rhetorically or metaphorically, to show contradictions in the Trinitarian’s beliefs!
To conclude about the beauty of sublime message of the Psalms, I present a collection of 15 references collected by Jedley Manimtim, Yahoo! Contributor Network, about God’s Love:
Psalms 23:5-6 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
Psalms 26:2-3 Test me, O LORD, and try me, examine my heart and my mind; for your love is ever before me, and I walk continually in your truth.
Psalms 31:7 I will be glad and rejoice in your love, for you saw my affliction and knew the anguish of my soul.
Psalms 31:16 Let your face shine on your servant; save me in your unfailing love.
Psalms 33:5 The LORD loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of his unfailing love.
Psalms 36:5 Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies.
Psalms 59:16 But I will sing of your strength, in the morning I will sing of your love; for you are my fortress, my refuge in times of trouble.
Psalms 63:3 Because your love is better than life, my lips will glorify you.
Psalms 66:20 Praise be to God, who has not rejected my prayer or withheld his love from me!
Psalms 86:5 You are forgiving and good, O Lord, abounding in love to all who call to you.
Psalms 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.
Psalms 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you.
Psalms 100:5 For the LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations.
Psalms 103:9-12 He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Psalms 115:1 Not to us, O LORD, not to us but to your name be the glory, because of your love and faithfulness.
Psalms 147:11 the LORD delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love.
Additional Readings
The Bible, The Quran and Science: Is the Quran copied from the Bible?
The Holy Quran as the Miracle of the Holy Prophet
Compilation of the Holy Quran into a text
Where is the Injil, is it the Q document or ‘Q?’
Categories: CHRISTIANITY, Highlight, Islam, Judaism, Religion
You suggest that the Psalms should be removed from the Christian Biblebecause you believe that they contracdict trinitarian belief. The Trinity is in fact shot right through the Old Testament, to become more fully releaved in the New. Since you refer to the Psalms, Psalm 110 is a good place to see an allusion to the Trinity. Verse 1 goes: “The Lord says to my Lord: ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.'” Similarly, in the story of creation found in Genesis, God says: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.”
The amazing and, dare I say, miraculous thing about the Bible is that it contains 66 books, written over several centuries by over 40 different authors and yet there is such great harmony and consistency in its message of revelation, which culminates, rather like climbing to the top of a mountain, to the summit of the Gospel message of Jesus Christ, Isa al Masih.
John please read the following post and also watch the videos in there:
William Lane Craig’s Confession: ‘If we Examine Trinity, through the lens of the Old Testament, It is not Believable!’
Thanks for your reply, Dr Shah. I happen to be familiar with WL Craig’s work (and of Lee Strobel’s who features in the clip). I am pretty sure he and I would be in agreement on this. The short clip you point me to seems to take his perspective out of context.
Certainly, nowhere in the Old Testament is there an explicit description of a triune God. However, Christians always start with the revelation of Jesus, so we start with the New Testament, and from there look back to better understand the Old.
The Trinity can be clearly deduced from the New Testament (that is another discussion), so when we have that truth in mind and look back at the Old Testament, we can clearly see a number of places where the plurality of the One God is found there, and from there deduce these to be veiled references to the Trinity.
For Christians, God’s revelation of himself is progressive through history, and culminates with the much fuller revelation we see in Jesus, which is why we start with him and then look back to earlier revelation to see more clearly what was then seen incompletely.
John I truly sympathize with you. Two thousand years of indoctrination, generation after generation, in the contradictory ideas of the Christian dogma, and obsession with the person of Jesus of Nazareth, has taken away clarity of religious thought from the Christians.
You see three in one and one in three that a child born in any other culture will laugh at.
In your own comment above you talk about plurality of One God, which is an oxymoron.
Unfortunately, you are wearing red glasses and the whole world seems bloody to you. Please take off the glasses and you will see that there is a beautiful world out there.
You will begin to appreciate a rain bow rather than a mono-chromatic red world.
May Allah guide all of us to truth!
Peace.
Dear Dr Shah, thanks for your reply. If God is truly God, that is if he is higher than all our ways and understanding, then we should not be shocked that some aspects of who he is seem paradoxical to us.
The Trinity offers us a wonderful way of understanding that God is inherently a relational God, and therefore, presents us with the possibility that true love is an essential part of his nature, not something he ‘puts on’ in his dealings with us but is not really apart of himself.
Father, Son and Spirit have been in a communion of love from all eternity, so that love is a natural expression of his being and it is therefore natural for his love to simply flow over to us, who are merely his creatures. Mere creatures, yet truly loved.
Salam.
Dear John
Please give us a break. This is 21st century and first century rhetoric is not working any more.
You talk about a loving God, but, I am sorry to mention that God the Father in Christian tradition cannot forgive without killing his own ‘literal son.’
Additionally, you have added paradox on paradox here. A literal son cannot be eternal with his literal father. A father has to father his son at some point in time.
If anything goes, and in the name of faith you are willing to accept any contradictory ideas, why do not you, please, consider accepting, the Jewish and the Muslim idea of God, which makes perfect sense and in your unknowing moments, you borrow their idea of Transcendent God, anyways.
Let us close discussion here and meet in another post.
Peace.
Dear Dr Shah,
You take the liberty of commenting on Christian beliefs, so it seems fair, especially since you invite comments, to be allowed to set out what Christians actually believe.
Father, Son and Spirit are of one mind, so that when the Father sends the Son, the Son at the same time wills to go. In sending his Son, with whom he is one, to die, the Father is also choosing to take suffering to himself. It is because we cannot bear the punishment for our sin, else we die, that God takes our punishment himself. In his holiness, he must punish sin, to demonstrate his hatred of sin, but in his love, he takes our sin onto himself and suffers the necessary punishment, leaving us free to enjoy his mercy and love.
The term Son of God is often misunderstood. It is not literal in the sense you seem to imply. Just as I am a son of England, yet England did not father me with a woman, so it should not be interpreted literally with Jesus. It speaks of the likeness of the Son to his Father and the authority the Son carries from his Father. The Bible makes it clear that the Son is co-eternal with the Father, that the Son has no beginning and no end.
God bless.
John Trinity is not often misunderstood. It cannot be understood. That is why insightful Christian apologists call it a mystery and act in silence and do not talk about it.
You say, “Father, Son and Spirit are of one mind!” So, why go through the trouble of three? Why not just say there is One God, God the Father? Additionally, why would Jesus constantly pray to God the Father and just not think in his mind?
But, the fact of the matter is that according to the Christian dogma, even Jesus himself has two natures:
http://islamforwest.org/2011/12/27/two-natures-of-jesus-another-christian-mystery/
Please stop playing these word games. Let me remind you about Monophysitism:
I made a one time exception. I am closing this thread. If you want to search Trinity and other terms in the Muslim Times and please add your comments to some other relevant post.
Peace!
I reread step by step the arguments you put forward John you did a great job wonderfully and clearly.
Mike you can choose to be penny wise and pound foolish, but, did you happen to see the new History channel series about the Bible, which started premiering in USA yesterday?
Bible Secrets Revealed, New History Channel Documentary, To Premiere Today in USA
No I didn’t watch the new History Channel series Zia I much prefer to go to the original source. Just because something appears digitally doesn’t enhance its authority for me.
I am not swayed this way or that by some curious adventures I prefer to stay at hope and count my gold I have no need of pennies or pounds either. What I discern in the bible feeds me sufficiently.
….
You hold up versions of the truth Zia I prefer Raw Truth with a capital ‘T’ it is more life sustaining . Jesus is the Living God son of the Father not a dead prophet of long ago. There is the difference