Additional Reading
Nominating Karen Armstrong for Literature Nobel Prize
Categories: Highlight, Muhammad, Prophet Muhammad, Video
Additional Reading
Nominating Karen Armstrong for Literature Nobel Prize
Categories: Highlight, Muhammad, Prophet Muhammad, Video
Zia,
If Karen Armstrong truly believes what she says, why has she not converted by now? That she has not done so is proof that she has no faith in her postulation. It is hard to think that someone who sees Muhammad for what he claimed would choose to end up in hell instead of heaven.
Namelee, why do you want Karen Armstrong in hell? I do not.
All knowing God will judge everyone by their inner truth and their intentions.
I and you should not play God!
Even you have a fighting chance for redemption, if you let truth lead you, where it may, rather than constant insistence on pre-conceived thoughts and ideology.
Did you read the article I mentioned about Kripkean dogmatism?
If we do not fall prey to dogmatism, all of us have the potential to be redeemed.
When you want to make waves, pick up a religion or ism that is despised by most of your people and start finding and writing about its good points. A number of European writers have made a good use of this and written about Islam and the Prophet of Islam in a favorable way.
Writing about Islam has often turned out to be lucrative in that there being a lot of Muslims who are looking for a good word being said about Islam. The result usually is that they earn a reputation of being fair and their work gets cited and gets translated into other languages. Of course that reputation can be used to say things against Islam to pacify folks at home and perhaps to cause confusion.
It appears that a lot of this is happening in Pakistan these days. Anyone who knows how to write and knows something about the history of the country can start writing about the mistreatment of the minorities to good effect. Thanks to Pakistan’s unique position as a battleground of all sort of foreign influences, the foreign press has its telescopes trained on Pakistan. So, if you write a good piece on the shabby treatment of certain minorities, and Pakistani Press does not pick it up the foreign press will.
Now you know that you cannot expect a Sunni writing about Shia genocide or about murders of Ahmadis to convert these faiths, they are just writing for fairness’ sake and you cannot expect them to convert to the faith they’re so valiantly writing in favor of. So why do you want Karen to convert to Islam? It’s a good exercise in “effective” writing and at least Karen and the likes of her are being friendly and not as obnoxious as others are and why don’t we leave it at that?
Zia,
The matter is very simple. Muhammad said that only a section of his followers will be in ‘paradise’. By that reasoning, all others will end up in hellfire. Karen Armstrong will certainly end up in hellfire unless she follows ‘allah and his prophet’. That is available in the quran and the hadiths.
Muhammad Zafrullah,
They say that the taste of the pudding is in the eating. Isn’t logical that if Karen Armstrong truly believes what she is propagating she should follow the lead of her ‘prophet’ of her time? That has nothing to do with what is written about Pakistan.
It has become very hard these days to separate truth from fiction. Writers like Karen Armstrong and Leslie Hazelton have written about religions other than their own. It is a great strategy to make name and money. I agree that in the matters of Faith you cannot be writing so much good about all of them and have no real attachment with any of them. You have to take a side. It does not mean that you have to say bad things about others.
Namelee
The following verses of the Quran describe, how God will judge each one of us:
And:
And:
There is no need for Karen Armstrong to end up in hellfire. She is doing good deeds, honestly telling what she finds to be right.
As per verses of the Quran presented above by Zia Shah sahib, Allah has ordained that believers of all faiths will have no fear nor will they be sorry.
Please read those verses and know that Allah will not punish any honest person. But the dishonest persons spreading false info will be questioned and taken to task.
Zia and Ghulam,
Your allah is full of contradictions. There are numerous verses in the quran where allah also says that only its followers will come to its paradise. If you need them, I will be all too willing to oblige.
One would have thought that with the passage in Bukhari where Muhammad said even ‘I WILL NOT BE SAVED BY MY GOOD DEEDS ALONE’ the issue of what leads one to eternal bliss would have been settled.
Namelee, apparent contradictions arise, when the reader because of his or her limited knowledge and biases is unable to understand the word of God.
The Holy Quran states:
The scripture has to be the literal word of God and be preserved over time, for the above claim to be true and the Holy Quran has both these distinctions.
If we even accept the claim of most orientalists that the Holy Quran is word of Muhammad, may peace be on him, even then there is a distinct possibility of it containing a uniform message, coming from one mind.
The Bible on the other hand is a product of scores of minds, if you look into the process of compilation of the Holy Bible and begin to understand the modern university scholarship about the Bible.
Namelee, my response to your comment addressed to me: Charlton Heston played Moses, in “Ten Commandments”, very effectively, would you “expect” him to stay “prophet-like” after that? (I recall seeing a sizzling sex scene (illicit of course) in a later movie. It’s a living my friend and I’d let authors like Karen Armstrong “perform”.
With reference to your insinuation that “Your allah is full of contradictions …”. It’d be nice if you give us those verses. I for one would love to see a contradiction in the Quran, I’ve spent my life looking for one; to no avail as yet.
Zia,
The quran “has been preserved over time” because unlike other holy books(if the quran numbers among them), it is surrounded by mountain ring called blasphemy law. As the sunnis and the shiites have different versions of the quran, which one of them has been preserved over time in its original form? And what did its original form look like? After Zayid’s compilation, Aisha said that a particular chapter lost seventy verses. There were additions and deletions in other chapters as well. Which can be called the original, I ask again?
There is a problem if the quran is the literal word of ‘God’. For such ‘God’ was so ignorant that he did not know that Mary the mother of Jesus lived about 2,000 years after Moses so both could not have been siblings. Again, the chapter on the caves mentions ‘Dool Karnain’ and in his version, Arthur J. Arberry identifies the character as ‘Alexander the Great’. He was Greek who believed in many gods.
…
Sunnis and Shiites do NOT have different versions of the Quran!!!!!
Namelee, I know any answer to you will fall on deaf ears, but, for other readers, I am linking an article, which has a lot of materials and links in the comment section, about the preservation of the text of the Holy Quran:
Compilation of the Holy Quran into a text
A detailed Urdu book on the topic of preservation of the Holy Quran
Here is a 400 page book covering different aspects of the preservation of the Holy Quran:
http://alislam.org/urdu/pdf/Az-Zikrul-Mahfuz.pdf
Muhammad Zarullah,
I have heard people say “the closer you look, the less you see”. That may be the case with you.
1. A muslim is a believer, submitter or follower of allah. So who was the first muslim, according to the quran?
(a) Moses; sura 7:143 “–GLORY BE TO YOU! ACCEPT MY REPENTANCE. I AM THE FIRST BELIEVER–“.
(b) Some Egyptians; sura 26:51 “–HE WILL FORGIVE US OUR SINS SINCE WE ARE THE FIRST WHO HAVE BELIEVED-“.
(c)Muhammad; sura 6:14 “–‘SAY, I(MUHAMMAD) WAS COMMANDED TO BE THE FIRST TO SUBMIT TO HIM–“.
(d) Abraham; sura 2:127 “–‘SUBMIT’, HE ANSWERED: ‘I HAVE SUBMITTED TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS–“.
2. Can allah be seen and did Muhammad see him?
(a) he can be seen. Suras 53:1-18, 81:15-29 ‘in the horizon under the lotte tree’.
(b) He cannot be seen. Suras 6:102-103, 42:51 “NO MORTAL EYES CAN SEE HIM–“.
3. What will be the food of the inhabitants of hell?
(a) Bitter thorns. Sura 88:1
(b) filth (foul puss per Arberry). Sura 69:25.
(c)Fruits of the Zaqqum tree. Sura 37:66.
Let us start from here and progress further as the need arises.
Rafiq,
Oh yes! They do. I am told that the only quran permitted in the Islamic Republic of Iran is the one published in that country. The shiite version contains certain things on Ali which are not in the Sunni version.
Even you Ahmadis have some verses which are different. That makes your version also different and unacceptable to the main stream muhammadans. Can your version be read in a sunni mosque?
The Ahmadiyya Jamaat does not have any different Quran!!! No sentence, no verse is different!!! (The only difference is in counting the verses as we count ‘Bismillah…’ As verse one and some other publishers do not)
@ namelee
There is only one “vrsion” of the Quran.
different groups have their own interpretations but that does not mean different Quran because the interpretations are not God’s Word but the words of the scholars.
regading Moses (pbuh) being the first believer, yes he was the first believer from his nation at that time, just like Muhammad (pbuh) was the first belieevr from Makkah at that time. You have to consider the historical context.
regarding the punishment of hell, yes there are different types of punishments and “foods”.
just because there are several various “foods” does not mean contradiction.
regarding seeing Allah in this life then no. the Quranic chapter 53 and 81 refers to Muhammad (pbuh) seeing Angel Gabriel.
hope that clarifies your queries
@ namelee
from where did you get the allegation that somehow 70 verses of the quran were lost?!
there is no reliable narration that supports such allegation.
But nevertheless Qur’an was also written down and this was done right during the life time of the Holy Prophet -may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. And all the later masahif were based on what was dictated by the Holy Prophet himself. We shall see the details shortly.
Evidence from the Quran that the Quran was written during the time of the Prophet (saw);
“Is it not sufficient for them that We have sent down to you the Book (the Quran) which is recited to them? Verily, herein is mercy and a reminder (or an admonition) for a people who believe.” [29:51]
Say, “Have you considered your ‘partners’ whom you invoke besides Allah ? Show me what they have created from the earth, or have they partnership [with Him] in the heavens? Or have We given them a book so they are [standing] on evidence therefrom? [No], rather, the wrongdoers do not promise each other except delusion.” [35:40]
“Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah. That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray – for him there is no guide.” [39:23]
“They said, “O our people, indeed we have heard a [recited] Book revealed after Moses confirming what was before it which guides to the truth and to a straight path.” [46:30]
“Or have you a Book through which you learn.” [68:37]
The above verses clearly prove that the Quran was written and compiled during the time of Allah’s messenger (saw).
The Qur’an repeatedly calls itself “al-kitab” i.e. something written. In fact it is so called right in the beginning of the scripture as stated in chapter 2 verse 2.
ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِلْمُتَّقِينَ
“This is the Book (al-kitab) about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah.”
Al-Baqilani (d. 403 A.H.) quotes, Ubayy bin Ka’b (RA) himself stated;
ربّما نزلَ على رسول – صلى الله عليه وسلم – الصدرُ من السور فأكتبُها، ثم ينزل عليه فيقول: “يا أُبيُّ اكتب هذه في السورة التي يُذكرَ فيها كذا وكذا”، وربّما نزل عليه فأقفُ حتى أنظرَ ما يقولُ حتى يحذدثَ إليّ فيقول: “تلك الآياتُ ضعها في سورةِ كذا وكذا
“Sometimes the beginning of a surah is revealed to the Prophet, so I write it down; then another revelation comes to him so he says, ‘Ubayy! Write this down in the surah where such and such is mentioned.’ At other times a revelation comes down to him and I await his instructions, till he informs me of its rightful place.” (al-Intisar lil-Qur’an 1/291)
Namelee, trouble is if it is not your desire to you won’t see. (1) Ana Awwalulmuslimeen is a figure of speech to express “I am the foremost (front runner) of the Muslims”. Now go figure how some folks can say that and be true in their times.
(2) 2(a) Every one, who so wishes, can see God through God’s signs.
53:18 Surely, he saw the greatest of the Signs of his Lord.
81:23 And he assuredly saw Him on the clear horizon.
2(b) You cannot see Him physically
6:103 Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.
42:51 And it is not for a man that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a veil or by sending a messenger to reveal by His command what He pleases. Surely, He is High, Wise.
You missed one. God told Moses that Moses could not see Him, point blank, in 7:143: And when Moses came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show Thyself to me that I may look at Thee.’ He replied, ‘Thou shalt not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it remains in its place, then shalt thou see Me.’ And when his Lord manifested Himself on the mountain, He broke it into pieces and Moses fell down unconscious. And when he recovered, he said, ‘Holy art Thou, I turn towards Thee, and I am the first to believe.’
(3)Think again! He keeps the nature of our life after our deaths a secret. Surely our bodies won’t be what we see as our bodies. So these won’t possibly be the “foods” as we know them. These are the punishments, for different bad behaviors. And these punishments are described in those terms so that we can have an idea. Besides why do you want all the inmates of Hell to have the same food all the time? (Have some compassion! I hear the Israelite revolted when they had to eat the same sort of stuff day in and day out!)
Rafiq,
If I am wrong about the Ahmadis having a different quran it is because TMT and you in particular misled me. Sometime last there was a story on this site about the Ahmadiyya quran and India. It was the first time of my hearing such a thing. So I inquired if the Ahmadis had a different quran from the other muhammadan sects. Your reply was that some of the verses have been changed. If that is no longer the case you did not get back to me,
The Ahmadiyya quran will still be different even if only the arrangement of the verses is altered because its verse one of a sura will not correspond with what is in Pickthal, Ali, Arberry etc.
Namelee. Just to repeat. The text of all Qur’ans are the same in the original language. Translations and Commentary may differ a little bit, but the original text are the same. The arrangement of the verses has not changed, only the numbering differs (that is not the same thing). Sorry, if I was not clear enough in the past. (I know I am not good in LONG explanations…)
Parvez,
What is the need of different groups having their own ‘interpretations’ of the quran if there is only one version? The fact is that I have copies of the quran whose verses do not say the same thing. That goes beyond interpretation.
On Moses being the first believer from ‘his nation at that time’, the quran does not say so. Moses was a Jew or Hebrew like Abraham, having descended from the latter. If Abraham had already ‘submitted, then Moses was not the first from his nation. Jacob and his sons, whose lineage Moses came, from were earlier ‘believers’.
The language used is quite clear. It does not say “I/We am/are the first believer(s) from our nation”. Being a first means that thing has never happened before except there is a qualification which is lacking in this case.
Namelee: You say,
“The language used is quite clear. It does not say “I/We am/are the first believer(s) from our nation”. Being a first means that thing has never happened before except there is a qualification which is lacking in this case.”
Splitting the hairs, are we? Consider the following said to a Deity, unaffected by time, by different people at different times: “I am your most obedient servant”. Each time the person saying it is referring to other obedient servants that he/she knows. I don’t know if you had the experience but I said it: “Thank you Lord! It’s by your grace that I stood first in the 10th grade!” And I meant by it the 10th grade class of my school and not the 10th grade of any time. That also brings me to note that in the cases you find objectionable the Quran is not saying it, the Quran is quoting people as saying it and people can be allowed to have a limited vision and a limited command of the language.
@ namelee
The actual verses of the Quran in arabiv is the same.
Ofcourse there are different translation and commentaries due to each writers own interpretations. Every person has their own understanding of any texts whether its the Quran or any other religious book.
also to take one verse and ignore other verses or hadith that explains the relevant verse does not mean that there is contradiction.
The Quran in chapter 7 states that Moses said; “I am the first to believe”, but this has to be interpretated based upon other verses that state all other Prophets believed. So logically the statement of moses would mean him being the first believer at his time from his nation.
My understanding remains unchanged. Those who spoke claimed they were the first. There is no ambiguity. It is as simple as that.
Parvez,
The person Muhammad said he saw was not ‘Gabriel’ but allah himself. Muhammad first saw ‘Gabriel’ in the cave of hira. If it were ‘Gabriel’ he saw, there would not have been that much excitement because they had met several times before then. He ‘saw’ some being beyond ‘Gabriel’. This is reinforced by his claim that during the ‘miraj’ he went to allah several times to have the number of daily prayers reduced from 50 to the present 5. There is no indication that the meeting was either through an intermediary or behind a veil/wall/screen. That leaves only one possibility. It was direct.
Both suras refer to Muhammad having seen allah but not ‘Gabriel’.
‘Moses’ was different from Muhammad. Allah did not have the sort of high regard it/he had for ‘Moses’ as he/it did Muhammad. Allah may have refused ‘Moses’ seeing it but allowed Muhammad that rare privilege.
On the reduced chapters of the quran, at-Suyuti, in his Itqaan, quotes Malik as saying that chapter 9(Repentance) used to be as long as chapter 2(Cow). But after the compilation it was reduced to the present length. Sura 2 has 286 verses while sura 9 has 129 verses. That shows a loss of 157 verses.
According to Aisha, the chapters on stoning and suckling were eaten by goats during Muhammad’s funeral.
All these losses prompted Abdullah bin Umar al Khatabb to say, that no one should talk about having acquired the whole quran because much of it has been lost. It should only be said that one has what is available.
The shiites, on their website, say that the complete quran is with the expected Mahdi who will bring it when he comes. They give ten reasons for saying that the quran as it is now has been corrupted.
If the quran had existed as a book, why did Zayid consider compiling it a task more difficult than moving a mountain? That may have been figurative, but it showed the difficulty he anticipated in going about the task. If there was a book, why did Zayid have to compile from bones, stones, leaves, parches, skins etc none of which was properly preserved? The proper thing would have been for him to have revised or reviewed the book. But he had to start from almost nothing. The out come of that effort was condemned and led to the death of Uthman.
The quran is not the literal word of God and its current state is not any original form that can be vouched for.
The children of Israel were not in the desert as punishment. So they could clamor for a change of diet. Whoever is in hell is there for punishment and cannot be afforded the luxury of changing diets. From what is read of hell in the quran, it is not a place where any form of mercy shall be shown. The question still remains: what will be the diet of the inmates of hell?
“My understanding remains unchanged. Those who spoke claimed they were the first. There is no ambiguity. It is as simple as that.”
If it is not your desire to see you would never see. First could also mean, as I have pointed out, directly or indirectly, foremost, the best, one at the top of the crowd. This is how it is used in most languages and Arabic is no exception. Seems you have run out of your “contradictions in Allah” and have decided to stick to this one flimsy bit, the timeline.
Recall from 7:143: And when Moses came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show Thyself to me that I may look at Thee.’ He replied, ‘Thou shalt not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it remains in its place, then shalt thou see Me.’ And when his Lord manifested Himself on the mountain, He broke it into pieces and Moses fell down unconscious. And when he recovered, he said, ‘Holy art Thou, I turn towards Thee, and I am the first to believe.’ Think it is incorrect to translate “و انا اول المسلمین
as “and I am the first to believe”. The first reason is the literal translation is ” and I am the first of believers” grammatically. The second is Moses being the first to believe is factually wrong on account of the fact that Moses came from Bani Israel who were, generally, Muslims at the time, in the terminology of the Quran. (At least Moses’ mother was a believer at his birth.) This of course takes care of Moses being the first of the believers being literal.
So what did Moses mean when he said “wa ana awwalulmuslimeen”? Think he meant something like “and I am the staunchest of believers”.
Before I get busy with other stuff, here’s an observation related to the title,”Muhammad: a Prophet for our time” by Karen Armstrong.
I have often wondered if there was a prophet among the Israelite after Jesus (pbuh) was crucified, if there were any prophets between Jesus and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)and have there been any prophets among the Israelite and Christians after the advent of Prophet Muhammad?
Personally I have yet to hear or read about any among the non-Muslims who claimed to be prophets after Prophet Muhammad and were not exposed and/or humiliated.
Muhammad Zafrullah,
My reply to your last but one comment could not be published. I shall resend it.
On this issue, the role of the prophet has to be understood first. As far as it known a prophet is the medium between God and man. He brings the revelations from God to man.
By the muhammadan doctrine of wahiyy, the revelation can be in one of three forms: either directly when God speaks to the medium, or reveals in his dreams or sends an angel to him. That this doctrine still exists in muhammadanism means that the office of the prophet has not been extinguished or abolished. I have read in one of the books by Ghulam Ahmad that prophesy should be part of the muhammadan tradition.
The existence of prophethood gave rise to claims by Elijah Muhammad, Rashad Khaliffa etc to be, in their own words, ‘the last messenger’.
After Jesus, they were prophets. In the Acts of the Apostles, mention is made of Prophet Agabus who predicted the famine that struck Israel and the arrest and imprisonment of Paul if he returned to Jerusalem. Both events happened as they were predicted. Then there were two daughters of another believer, who were prophetesses.
As the office of the prophet is in existence, there are prophets today.
The huge difference is that none of them coerces people to accept them.
Namelee: Thanks for this information! I will look it up.
“After Jesus, they were prophets. In the Acts of the Apostles, mention is made of Prophet Agabus who predicted the famine that struck Israel and the arrest and imprisonment of Paul if he returned to Jerusalem.”
The trouble is there’s a difference between a saint and a prophet. Just communion with God may not make a person a prophet, nor would a prophesy come true would in my opinion. I would rather call a man a prophet if he claims that God has chosen him to be one to guide his people, and passes the Biblical and the Quranic tests.
I am glad to know that you are familiar with the writings of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Oh and don’t forget my quest. I’m always looking for contradictions in the Quran that would stump everyone. (If I’m certain that there’s something wrong, I am free!)To date whatever came my way got resolved and that’s sort of annoying.
Muhammad Zafrullah,
Moses’ statement has to be taken literally. The quran is said to be the literal and infallible word of allah. There can be no innovation by giving it another meaning.
It was rather presumptuous of you to think that I had nothing more to say on this topic. I said I was only pausing for the first issues raised to be dealt with before moving on to the next ones. We continue from where we stopped.
1. Should muslims show kindness to their families?
(a) YES. Sura 17:23-24 “–AND TO SHOW KINDNESS TO YOUR PARENTS–“.
(b)NO. Sura 9:23 “–BELIEVERS, DO NOT BEFRIEND YOUR FATHERS AND BROTHERS IF THEY CHOOSE UNBELIEF IN PREFERENCE TO FAITH. WRONG DOERS ARE THOSE THAT BEFRIEND THEM–“.(See sura 58:22 too).
2. What constitutes allah’s day?
(a)Suras 32:1 and 22:47 “–1,000 YEARS–”
(b) Sura 70:4 “–THE MEASURE OF WHICH IS 50,000 YEARS–“.
3. In how many days did allah destroy Aad?
(a) Sura 54:18 “–ON A DAY OF UNREMITTING WOE–“.
(b) Sura 41:16 “–OVER A FEW ILL-OMEN DAYS–”
(c) Sura 69:6-7 “–7 NIGHTS AND 8 SUCCESSIVE DAYS-”
4. Heaven and earth, which one was created first?
(a) Sura 2:29 “–HE CREATED FOR YOU ALL THE EARTH AND ASCENDING TO THE SKY, FASHIONED IT INTO SEVEN HEAVENS–“.
(b) Sura 79:27-30 “–HE RAISED IT(HEAVEN) HIGH–AND THE EARTH HE EXTENDED AFTER THAT–“.
(c) Sura 10:1 “–CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IN 6 DAYS–“.
5. What was man created from?
(a) Sura 16:3 “–FROM A LITTLE GERM–“.
(b) Sura 96:12 “–FROM CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD–“.
(c) Sura 25:54 “–HE CREATED MAN FROM WATER–“.
(d) Sura 15:30 “–CREATED OF A CLAY OF MUD MOULDED”
(e) Sura 19:67 “–CREATED HIM FROM OUT OF NOTHING-”
(f) Sura 75″36 “–WAS HE NOT A DROP OF EJECTED SEMEN? THEN HE BECAME A CLOT OF BLOOD. THEN ALLAH CREATED AND MOULDED HIM–“.
From sura 75:36, it does seem that allah could only creat man from the blood clot formed by the ejected semen which had been brought into existence by another being.
There is a pause at this point.
The problem can be resolved by understanding the correct meaning of the word Prophet (Nabi) and Messenger (Rasool) as used in the Quran. There is a difference in the meaning and implication (status) of these two words (difference is apparent from the verses of the Quran).
As I understand them, The word Rasool applies to four categories:
1. A prophet who brought a new law. (Sharie Nabi).
2. A prophet who did not bring any new law.
3. A Muhaddath to whom Allah speaks, and he is as good as a prophet but Allah does not give him the name of a prophet and does not address him (appoint him) as a prophet. He is capable of becoming a prophet.
4. A Mujaddid or Reformer in the Ummah who appears at times in the Ummah to eradicate any mistakes that may have crept in the Ummah (and they do creep up, always).
The above mentioned are Imam az Zamaan. (See the book “Zaroorat al Imaam”)
Accrording to the teaching of the Quran, it is essential that Messengers (Rusul) follow i.e. appear after the time of a prophet. A solemn pledge was taken from all prophets that they (i.e. their followers will) surely believe in the Messengers and will support them ( See verse 3:82 and verse 33:8 please).
[3:82] And remember the time when Allah took a covenant from the people through the Prophets, saying : ‘Whatever I give you of the Book and Wisdom and then there comes a Messenger to you, fulfilling that which is with you, you shall believe in him and help him. ‘ And He said: ‘Do you agree, and do you accept the responsibility which I lay upon you in this matter ? ‘ They said, ‘We agree;’ He said, ‘Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.’]
It was a strict promise taken from all prophets. So Messengers always follow (appear) after the prophets. Prophets do not remain long time in the Ummah. It is then the job of the messengers (Rusul) to carry forward the message of those prophets. That is the divine principle.
Many messengers always follow the prophets with the same teachings: [23:45] Then We sent Our Messengers one after another……
The non Ahamdi Muslims believe that a Rasool is much greater than a prophet. They believe that every Rasool is a prophet but all prophets are not Rasool. That is all wrong.
Many prophets and messengers came after Musa a.s. and many messengers came after ISA a.s. They were his apostles (disciples). They all preached the message of Jesus a.s. and were successful in defeating the enemies of Jesus a.s. (See last verse of chapter 61).
Now the question arises about a messenger after the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. A messenger has to come. Many messengers came after the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. and the promised Messiah a.s. was the greatest one of them.
According to my writing above, every prophet is a Messenger (Rasool). But all Rasool (messengers) are not prophets. I may be wrong but that is what I am understanding from the Quran. The post is becoming long.
During the establishment of the Guided Khilafat, no reformer (Mujaddid) can appear in Ummah. Since a reformer is a Rasool, So it is understood that a Rasool also cannot appear. It is the Khalifah sahib himself who is quite a good Messenger.
I need some understanding on this subject from any or all friends who may do so. Thanks.
Namelee,
If Moses meant what you want me to believe then Moses (pbuh) was lying through his teeth as he belonged to a tribe of believers. (Prophet Muhammad knew that too, if like some folks you believe that he was the author of the Quran.)Besides the Quran was a stunning piece of literature for the Arabs when it was revealed to the Prophet (pbuh)and it used idiomatic language where it was appropriate and there are examples of that. (For instance the word “water” is used in the Quran to mean water or semen and the context shows which is meant.) Idiom has it that when someone say says “ana awwalulasdeqauk” it means “I am your best friend” and not necessarily “I was the first one to become your friend”.
So, while I respect your position, I think you are wrong to insist on your meanings.
“It was rather presumptuous of you to think that I had nothing more to say on this topic. I said I was only pausing for the first issues raised to be dealt with before moving on to the next ones. We continue from where we stopped.”
If I were presumptuous, I would not ask for more. I would look at each of what you have on offer and decide for myself if it constitutes a contradiction, a minor misunderstanding or something else. Oh and thank you for the list, it’d at least be a good exercise.
@ namelee
Surah Najm states that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) saw Angel Gabriel (pbuh) based upon hadith literature. [tafsir Ibn Kathir]
Also hadith literature state that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did not see Allah (SWT) literally during the ascension journey. And the meeting was behind a “veil” [sahih Muslim]
Also the reports stating that there were verses of stoning and breastfeeding in the Quran are weak and unreliable. [al baaqilani, ibn hibban, mufti shafi usmani and albaani]
regarding the incident of the goat as mentioned in sunan ibn majah, it is weak and unrelaible narration [Shaykh Muhammad Taqi Usmani in Takmala Fath Al-Mulhim 1/69 pub. Darul Ahya Al-Turath Al-Arabi, Beirut.
Shaykh Shu’aib Arnaud has classified it as unreliable in his classification of Musnad Ahmad and so did Ahmad Shakir]
Namelee,
I think it is best that we take them one by one. I hope the editors do not mind.
“1. Should muslims show kindness to their families?
(a) YES. Sura 17:23-24 “–AND TO SHOW KINDNESS TO YOUR PARENTS–”.
(b)NO. Sura 9:23 “–BELIEVERS, DO NOT BEFRIEND YOUR FATHERS AND BROTHERS IF THEY CHOOSE UNBELIEF IN PREFERENCE TO FAITH. WRONG DOERS ARE THOSE THAT BEFRIEND THEM–”.(See sura 58:22 too).”
17:23 Thy Lord has commanded, “Worship none but Him, and show kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, never say unto them any word expressive of disgust nor reproach them, but address them with excellent speech.
17:24 “And lower to them the wing of humility out of tenderness. And say, ‘My Lord, have mercy on them even as they nourished me in my childhood.’”
9:23 O ye who believe! take not your fathers and your brothers for friends, if they prefer disbelief to faith. And whoso befriends them from among you, it is they that are wrongdoers.
You missed some
31:14 And We have enjoined on man concerning his parents — his mother bears him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning takes two years — ‘Give thanks to Me and to thy parents. Unto Me is the final return.
31: 15‘And if they contend with thee to make thee set up equals with Me concerning which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not, but be a kind companion to them in all worldly affairs; and in spiritual matters follow the way of him who turns to Me. Then unto Me will be your return and I shall inform you of what you used to do.’
29:8 And We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents; but if they strive to make thee associate that with Me of which thou hast no knowledge, then obey them not. Unto Me is your return, and I shall inform you of what you did.
These show that the Quran is a book of guidance in all situations. Generally, you are supposed to be kind, but if they come out to fight you and your brothers in faith you fight back (9:23) and if they try to lead you away from your God, do not obey them (31:15, 29:8). It would be a very silly book if it had the same message for all situations.
Namelee,
I have tried to addressed all the issues you have raised and it is my assessment that your prejudice is the main issue.
2. What constitutes allah’s day?
(a)Suras 32:1 and 22:47 “–1,000 YEARS–”
(b) Sura 70:4 “–THE MEASURE OF WHICH IS 50,000 YEARS–”.
22:47 And they ask thee to hasten on punishment, but Allah will never break His promise. And verily, a day with thy Lord is as a thousand years of your reckoning.
32:6 He will plan the Divine Ordinance from the heaven unto the earth, then shall it go up to Him in a day the duration of which is a thousand years according to what you reckon. (Think this is what you meant when you put down 32:1.)
70:4 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
In a day is to mean in a period of time. Similarly by “day” a period of time is mean in the following.
7:54 Surely, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in (six days) six periods; then He settled Himself on the Throne. He makes the night cover the day, which pursues it swiftly. And He created the sun and the moon and the stars, all made subservient by His command. Verily, His is the creation and the command. Blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
Same goes for (10:3) (11:7) (25:59) and more.
The fact is wherever “Yum” or ayam” are mentioned it is abundantly clear from the context if a period is meant or an ordinary day is meant. I do understand your worry but this too does not constitute a contradiction. All it shows that you are not at all willing to understand that perhaps yum was used for a period as well as a day when the Quran was revealed.
3 In how many days did allah destroy Aad?
(a) Sura 54:18 “–ON A DAY OF UNREMITTING WOE–”.
(b) Sura 41:16 “–OVER A FEW ILL-OMEN DAYS–”
(c) Sura 69:6-7 “–7 NIGHTS AND 8 SUCCESSIVE DAYS-”
54:19 We sent against them a furious wind on a day of unending ill luck.
41:16 So We sent upon them a furious wind for several ominous days, that We might make them taste the punishment of humiliation in this life. And the punishment of the Hereafter will surely be more humiliating, and they will not be helped.
69:6 And as for ‘Ad, they were destroyed by a fierce roaring wind.
69:7 Which He caused to blow against them for seven nights and eight days consecutively, so that thou mightest have seen the people therein lying prostrate, as though they were trunks of palm-trees fallen down.
I fail to see where the contradiction is! It started on a day of continuing ill luck, according to 54:19, continued for several days and the total period was 7 nights and eight days by 69:7. I hope I do not have to fight contradictions that are in your head.
4 Heaven and earth, which one was created first?
(a) Sura 2:29 “–HE CREATED FOR YOU ALL THE EARTH AND ASCENDING TO THE SKY, FASHIONED IT INTO SEVEN HEAVENS–”.
(b) Sura 79:27-30 “–HE RAISED IT(HEAVEN) HIGH–AND THE EARTH HE EXTENDED AFTER THAT–”.
(c) Sura 10:1 “–CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IN 6 DAYS–”.
2:29 He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth; then He turned towards the heavens, and He perfected them as seven heavens; and He knows all things.
79:27 Are you harder to create or the heaven that He has built?
79:28 He has raised the height thereof and made it perfect.
79:29 And He has made its night dark, and has brought forth the morn thereof;
79:30 And the earth, along with it, He spread forth.
10:3 Verily, your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, then He settled Himself on the Throne; He governs everything. There is no intercessor with Him save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Will you not, then, be admonished?
All these verses beautifully express the various phases of creation of heaven and earth for us and this is borne out by physical evidence now! Let me throw in one more, one that completes the picture.
21:30 Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
Including this verse shows that there was a big mass of gases all in one big lump from which the earth was separated and earth’s sky the atmosphere was formed. The atmosphere was too dense in the beginning and too low, so the night was not dark enough and the day was not bright enough, it was all hazy. So He arranged it so that the atmosphere became rarer (and the sky looked high), He expanded the shere of gases surrounding the earth. But I do not see any contradiction here too.
5. What was man created from?
(a) Sura 16:3 “–FROM A LITTLE GERM–”.
(b) Sura 96:12 “–FROM CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD–”.
(c) Sura 25:54 “–HE CREATED MAN FROM WATER–”.
(d) Sura 15:30 “–CREATED OF A CLAY OF MUD MOULDED”
(e) Sura 19:67 “–CREATED HIM FROM OUT OF NOTHING-”
(f) Sura 75″36 “–WAS HE NOT A DROP OF EJECTED SEMEN? THEN HE BECAME A CLOT OF BLOOD. THEN ALLAH CREATED AND MOULDED HIM–”.
From sura 75:36, it does seem that allah could only creat man from the blood clot formed by the ejected semen which had been brought into existence by another being.
16: 4 He has created man from a drop of fluid, but lo! he is an open disputer.
96:2 Created man from a clot of blood. (You had put it down at 96:12.)
25:54 And He it is Who has created man from water, and has made for him kindred by descent and kindred by marriage; and thy Lord is All- Powerful.
(God created all living things from water and man is no exception but here, in my opinion, semen is meant by water, again to remind us of the fact that all pomp and show of relations and connections aside our origin is just that ejaculation.)
15:26 And, surely, We created man from dry ringing clay, from black mud wrought into shape. (You had it at 15:30)
19:67 Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was naught? (Being clay or just a germ in semen is being nothing in common usage!)
75:37 Was he not a drop of fluid, emitted forth?
75:38 Then he became a clot, then He shaped and perfected him.
75:39 Then He made of him a pair, the male and female
75: 40 Has not such a One the power to raise the dead to life?
These verses merely refer to (a) the original creation of man (25:54, 15:26)
(b) the creation of man as an animal, from a drop of semen (16:4, 25:54, 75:37) while 96:2 refers to a phase of pregnancy the world knew only recently while 19:67 is interesting in that pregnancy does not manifest itself instantly, it takes time and during that time we are nothing by any count.
75:37-40 confirm that going from fluid to clot was a part of the creation, as was making males and females and assures that the One who can do all that can bring us back to life. 75:37 and your comment on it clearly confirm what I said before, that is if it is not your desire to see then you will never see.
Parvez,
Muhammad said he had seen ‘Gabriel’ before and only initially did that generate controversy. As his mission went on, people became used to hearing him say so. If it was ‘Gabriel’ he saw, nobody would have considered him mad. That was why allah had to now confirm that what its messenger said was true. The object seen was not ‘Gabriel’.
It is pretty customary for muhammadans to classify a hadith as not being reliable when it gives the true but disturbing picture of Muhammad. Some do not believe in the hadiths at all. They read only the quran.
The chapters said to have been eaten by goats is not recorded in sunnan ibn Majah alone. It is to be found in imam Ahmad and ibn Hanbal as well. So, it is reliable.
With all these missing chapters and verses, would anyone say that the quran still exists in its original form? NO.
Namelee, unlike the Protestant Bible and the Catholic Bible and different versions of the Holy Bible, you can buy the Holy Quran in any part of the world, from a Shiite or a Sunni press and the Arabic text will be the same.
Namelee, I know any answer to you will fall on deaf ears, but, for other readers, I am linking an article, which has a lot of materials and links in the comment section, about the preservation of the text of the Holy Quran:
Compilation of the Holy Quran into a text
A detailed Urdu book on the topic of preservation of the Holy Quran
Here is a 400 page book covering different aspects of the preservation of the Holy Quran:
http://alislam.org/urdu/pdf/Az-Zikrul-Mahfuz.pdf
Muhammad Zafrullah,
Sura 9:23 urges the ‘believers’ to shun those of their families who prefer unbelief to faith. It does not say ‘if they fight you’. Nothing is said about fighting. Now you are equating unbelief with fighting and consequently, by simply being ‘unbelievers’ they should be fought. That goes to nullify the much deliberately misrepresented sura which calls for there being ‘no compulsion in religion’. People do disagree but still remain close friends. Lawyers do that. I have also seen a husband and his wife holding important positions in separate political parties while living happily together. For the quran to interpreter ‘preference for unbelief’ to mean fighting them, shows it to be ‘a silly book’.
I did not miss any of the additional verses you quoted. Once a verse has been used to support a point, I do not consider it necessary to bring in more, just to save time.
Sura 7:54 “YOUR LORD IS ALLAH, WHO IN SEVEN DAYS CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH”. The question is, which did allah say it created first, the heavens or the earth? Your post does not address that. The separation of the mass of gas still leaves the question, which did allah create first because in some verses it talks about creating the heavens first while in others it was the earth that was created first.
You have also not explained what constitutes allah’s day. Is it 1,000 or 50,000 years? The versions of the quran I have talk about days but not periods. The resort to ‘yum’ and ‘ayam’ does not help matters.
Sura 54:19 “ON A DAY OF UNREMITTING WOE, WE LET LOOSE ON THEM A HOWLING WIND WHICH SNATCHED THEM OFF AS THOUGH THEY WERE TRUNKS OF UPROOT, AND HOW STERN WAS MY WARNED PALM TREES. I WARNED THEM AND HOW STERN WAS MY PUNISHMENT AND MY WARNING?”. The destruction wrecked on that day was total. What was the point in continuing the bombardment for additional ‘7 nights and 8 successive days’? Allah did not know how long it took for it to destroy Aad. That is the contradiction.
Pregnancy does not result from nothing. It is a product of the fertilization of the egg by the sperm. If either the sperm or egg is missing/defective, there will be no pregnancy. How then can the product of the fertilization of the egg by the sperm be said to be nothing?
Back to ‘Moses’. For him to have claimed to be the first but not the most devout or staunchest believer, when his mother, as you said, was already a believer, shows that ‘he lied through his teeth’.
So far, nothing has been refuted. The charge of contradictions still remains.
May I suggest that we stick to the debate and keep away from being personal.
Whenever you are ready, I will continue.
“Sura 9:23 urges the ‘believers’ to shun those of their families who prefer unbelief to faith. It does not say ‘if they fight you’. Nothing is said about fighting. Now you are equating unbelief with fighting and consequently, by simply being ‘unbelievers’ they should be fought. That goes to nullify the much deliberately misrepresented sura which calls for there being ‘no compulsion in religion’. People do disagree but still remain close friends. Lawyers do that. I have also seen a husband and his wife holding important positions in separate political parties while living happily together. For the quran to interpreter ‘preference for unbelief’ to mean fighting them, shows it to be ‘a silly book’.”
Surah attaubah (9) is all about war, war that was imposed on Muslims. Oh and By the way the friendly lawyers would not give each other their weak points, nor would the man and wife in different parties would not divulge part secrets and if they are genuine they would be at each other’s throats if they suspected that the other side was attacking their client or their party. And 9:23 promotes just that and not what you insinuated. When I responded I was keeping the context, especially 9:24, in view as well. (By the way the translation of 9:24 reads as: Say, if your fathers, and your sons, and your brethren, and your wives, and your kinsfolk, and the wealth you have acquired, and the trade whose dullness you fear, and the dwellings which you love are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving in His cause, then wait until Allah comes with His judgment; and Allah guides not the disobedient people. And heck, all religions demand that, even Christianity and Judaism do.) Again I just cannot validate your insinuations of contradiction. What I see is a clear lack of a will to understand a balanced approach to human dealings. Islam does not preach the impossible “turn the other cheek” or “continue your dead brother’s name with his widow” it preaches what can be acted on and provides guidance for difficult situations. Call Quran a silly book as much as you like, if you put on dark glasses you would see dark.
“Sura 7:54 “YOUR LORD IS ALLAH, WHO IN SEVEN DAYS CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH”. The question is, which did allah say it created first, the heavens or the earth? Your post does not address that. The separation of the mass of gas still leaves the question, which did allah create first because in some verses it talks about creating the heavens first while in others it was the earth that was created first.”
Frankly that is beyond silly. Go read what I wrote, again or get some help.
You have also not explained what constitutes allah’s day. Is it 1,000 or 50,000 years? The versions of the quran I have talk about days but not periods. The resort to ‘yum’ and ‘ayam’ does not help matters.” Again I have explained that “day” is taken as “a period of time” with a mention of how long that period of time is by earthlings’ reckoning and you come back “ How long is Allah’s day?”
“Sura 54:19 “ON A DAY OF UNREMITTING WOE, WE LET LOOSE ON THEM A HOWLING WIND WHICH SNATCHED THEM OFF AS THOUGH THEY WERE TRUNKS OF UPROOT, AND HOW STERN WAS MY WARNED PALM TREES. I WARNED THEM AND HOW STERN WAS MY PUNISHMENT AND MY WARNING?”. The destruction wrecked on that day was total. What was the point in continuing the bombardment for additional ’7 nights and 8 successive days’? Allah did not know how long it took for it to destroy Aad. That is the contradiction.”
Thanks for the warning, but where did you get the first day? Also, it all happened in one go and the time it took was 8 days n seven nights. The rest are allusions to various phases of destruction. If you cannot understand simple things like that you have no right to call it a contradiction. I sympathize with your situation. Someone has set you up with those totally insane points no sane critic of Islam would use in criticizing Islam and you are supposed to make them stick.
“Pregnancy does not result from nothing. It is a product of the fertilization of the egg by the sperm. If either the sperm or egg is missing/defective, there will be no pregnancy. How then can the product of the fertilization of the egg by the sperm be said to be nothing?”
“Nothing” with the meaning of insignificant is used for shaming, and the Quran does a lot of that as my original response shows. It is like: “you were nothing, I made you a business man” and the Quran is a very emphatic book.
Oh and the sperm can be healthy and the egg can be perfect and present and the pregnancy may still no result. Apparently most often the insignificant sperms cannot cope with the “environmental problems”.
Well, if you claim that so far nothing is refuted I understand your position and your problem. Yes, keep them coming. It would be a good to know that there is your kind of criticism of Islam too. Oh and as I do not know a thing about you so, becoming “personal” is out of the question, but I hope we can criticize each others’ conclusions.
We read in Ibn Abi Dawud’s Al-Masahif;
Abu Bakr told Umar and Zaid, “Sit at the entrance of the mosque. When one brings you something from the Book of Allah with two witnesses, then record it.” (Kitabul Masahif, Hadith 18)
Commenting on narration from Ibn Abi Dawud Hafiz Ibn Hajr says,
“The intention was to accept only what had been written in the Prophet’s presence, not relying on one’s memory alone.” (Fath al-Bari 14/193)
Although the verses were arranged according to instruction of the Prophet (PBUH) the Surahs were not compiled in the single copy. In fact each Surah was on a separate copy. See Mustadrak Al-Hakim, Hadith 2854. During the caliphate of Uthman (ra) the whole Quran was compiled in one mushaf.
Imam Ali (ra) said; “Concerning Musahif (codices) the greatest reward will be for Abu Bakr. May Allah have mercy on Abu Bakr for; he is the first one to gather (the Book of Allah) between two bindings.’ (Ibn Abu Dawud’s Al-Masahif 1/16-20 Hadith 8-12)
regarding the incident of goat found in ibn majah; scholars such as mufti shafi usmani, albaani and ahmad shakir have graded the report as weak and unreliable.
for hadith to be authentic it must fulfil the following conditions;
Some criteria for the evaluation of Isnad
The unblemished and undisputed character of the narrator was the most important consideration for the acceptance of a prophetic tradition. A branch of the science of hadith (‘ilm al-hadith) known as asma’ ar-rijal (the biographies of the people) was developed to evaluate the credibility of narrators. The following are a few of the criteria utilized for this purpose:
1. The name and occupation of the narrator should be known.
2. The original narrator should have stated that he heard the hadith directly from the Prophet.
3. If a narrator referred his hadith to another narrator, the two should have lived in the same period and have had the possibility of meeting each other.
4. At the time of hearing and transmitting the hadith, the narrator should have been physically and mentally capable of understanding and remembering it.
5. The narrator should have been known as a pious and virtuous person.
6. The narrator should not have been accused of having lied, given false evidence or committed a crime.
Some criteria for the evaluation of the text’
1. The text should have been stated in plain and simple language as this was the undisputed manner of speech of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
2. A text contrary to the basic teachings of the Qur’an was rejected.
3. A text contrary to another established prophetic tradition was rejected.
4. Extreme care was taken to ensure the text was the original narration of the Prophet and not the sense of what the narrator heard. The meaning of the Prophet tradition was accepted only when the narrator was well known for his piety and integrity of character.
5. A text by an obscure narrator which was not known during the age of the Prophet’s companions or of the subsequent generation was rejected.
It is clear from the above that the criteria for verifying the Prophetic traditions are comprehensive and robust. Even in the philosophy of history we do not find such comprehensive criteria.
Parvez,
Sorry for the late reply. I had to pay attention to more pressing matters.
I have read your criteria for declaring a hadith to be reliable. You did not, however, say how Majah fails to meet these conditions. The verse quotes Aisha but not Muhammad who had died before the goats ate the chapters. Since I have not read the writings of the three ‘wise men’ who have declared Majah to be weak, did they question his integrity in any way in arriving at their conclusion? The idea of the narrator going back to the man who heard from Muhammad does not apply here.
Muhammad Zafrullah,
It is obvious that you have no answers to the contradictions I raised in the earlier comment. So, let us move on to the next ones.
Saying that my position is ‘frankly more than silly’ is not the solution. I read your comment at least twice before replying. There is no unwillingness to accept what is correct provided it is correct. But I cannot be brow beaten into concurring with what I know is not factual.
I cannot deny you the right to criticize my conclusions. But that has to be mutual. I should also have the right to come to my conclusion without being denied the opportunity to express it.
1. Will there be intercession on the Day of Judgment?
(a)Sura2:253 NO. “OH BELIEVERS, SPEND A PART OF WHAT WE HAVE GIVEN YOU BEFORE THAT DAY ARRIVES WHEN THERE SHALL BE NEITHER TRADING NOR FRIENDSHIP NOR INTERCESSION”
(b)Sura 82:19 YES. “–ON THAT DAY NONE SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO INTERCEDED FOR THEM EXCEPT HIM THAT HAS RECEIVED THE SANCTION OF THE MERCIFUL–“.
2. Who is the origin of calamity?
(a)Sura 38:41, Satan.
(b)Sura 4:79, Ourselves.
(c)Sura 4:78, “SAY TO THEM, ‘ALL (BLESSING AND EVIL) IS FROM ALLAH”.
3.Is allah merciful?
(a)Sura 6:12 YES. “HE HAS DECREED MERCY FOR HIMSELF”.
(b)Sura 6:35 NO. “HAD ALLAH PLEASED HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM GUIDANCE, ONE AND ALL–“.
Sura 14:4 NO. “BUT ALLAH LEAVES IN ERROR WHOM HE WILL AND GUIDES WHOM HE PLEASES”.
Allah is not merciful to those whom it chooses to leave in error.
4.Will there be any inquiry on the Day of Judgment/paradise?
(a)Sura 23:101 NO. “NOR WILL ANYONE ASK AFTER ANOTHER–“.
(b)Sura 52:25 YES. “THEY ADVANCE UPON ANOTHER ASKING EACH OTHER QUESTIONS”.
Sura 37:27 YES. “–BUT TODAY THEY RESIGN THEMSELVES IN SUBMISSION AND ADVANCE ONE UPON ANOTHER; ASKING QUESTIONS–“.
Sura 9 is all about war. These were wars that Muhammad initiated. … There is an attempt to revise history and portray Muhammad as a peaceful man who only resorted to war in defence. That is not supported by facts. The wars he led were called ‘qazwah’. Arabic speakers translate that to mean raids or attacks. To attack or raid shows who initiated the action. Defenders do not raid or attack.
I find it rather interesting that an adopted child should not bear the name of the adopted family so that it will not be an offense if the adopted father wants to take his son’s wife. That is very ‘practical’. It is also ‘practical’ for a divorcee not to reconcile with her husband until she has gone to bed with another man even if the reconciliation could be made within the shortest possible time.
I have read in the quran that there are two ways of responding to a grievance: either forgiveness or retaliation. It may be appealing to the muhammadan to retaliate. But to the Christian, to forgive is divine. Each is dictated to by his history.
Namelee,
Here’s what I have to say about the first objection.
“1. Will there be intercession on the Day of Judgment?
(a)Sura2:253 NO. “OH BELIEVERS, SPEND A PART OF WHAT WE HAVE GIVEN YOU BEFORE THAT DAY ARRIVES WHEN THERE SHALL BE NEITHER TRADING NOR FRIENDSHIP NOR INTERCESSION”
(b)Sura 82:19 YES. “–ON THAT DAY NONE SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO INTERCEDED FOR THEM EXCEPT HIM THAT HAS RECEIVED THE SANCTION OF THE MERCIFUL–”.”
2:254 O ye who believe! spend out of what We have bestowed on you before the day comes wherein there shall be no buying and selling, nor friendship, nor intercession; and it is those who disbelieve that do wrong to themselves. (You refer to 2:253, and the meanings match) Note that buying, selling and friendship are to do with this world here and intercession is mentioned in this connection. So this verse says that in the hereafter there will be no buying selling, friendship and intercession of the kind that goes on in this world.
82:19 The day when a soul shall have no power to do aught for another soul! And the command on that day will be Allah’s.
You got a totally wrong translation of this verse. However there is a verse that says yes for intercession on the Day of Judgment.
19:87 None will have the power of intercession save he who has received a promise from the Gracious God.
This intercession certainly will not be of the worldly kind. Only those servants of God who have the promise that they could intercede for certain kind of believers will be permitted to intercede.
Let us step back and look at it again. In this world people can get others to intercede for them with a promise of some give and take and there won’t be any give and take on the Day of Judgment, so no intercession on that Day will be of the give take kind. The only intercession that 19:87 (and not 82:19 that you offered) seems to promise will be from someone who has been praying for us, without necessarily knowing us, in this world. Of course I do not see a contradiction.
Namelee, My response to your second objection.
“2. Who is the origin of calamity?
(a)Sura 38:41, Satan.
(b)Sura 4:79, Ourselves.
(c)Sura 4:78, “SAY TO THEM, ‘ALL (BLESSING AND EVIL) IS FROM ALLAH”.
38:41 And remember Our servant Job, when he cried unto his Lord, saying, ‘Satan has afflicted me with toil and torment.’
Notice that God is quoting Job as saying, ‘Satan has afflicted me with toil and torment.’ He is not telling us, unlike the story of Job (pbuh) in the Bible. In the Bible of course it is presented as a sort of contest between God and Satan. It appears that Job who was indeed a patient man prayed to God loudly about his predicament. It appears that he (Job) held the opinion that it was Satan who had afflicted him with disease. So he would loudly pray to God to relieve him of the difficulty Satan had put him in. Possibly that is why in the book of Job the scribes have portrayed him as talking in wailing tones, not just in his supplications but also in his conversations with visitors. (My knowledge of the Biblical literature is sketchy, so please check and correct me if I am wrong. I once skimmed through the Book of Job.)
4:79 Whatever of good comes to thee is from Allah; and whatever of evil befalls thee is from thyself. And We have sent thee as a Messenger to mankind. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness.
Here, clearly, the Prophet is addressed and it is a kind of rejoinder to the allegation, mentioned in 4:78, made by the hypocrites. Let’s read what 4:78 says.
4:78 Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you be in strongly built towers. And if some good befalls them, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ and if evil befalls them, they say, ‘This is from thee.’ Say, ‘All is from Allah.’ What has happened to these people that they come not near understanding anything?
So, 4:78 mentions what was alleged as: And if some good befalls them, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ and if evil befalls them, they say, ‘This is from thee ’ Say, ‘All is from Allah.’ And 4:79 mimics it as “Whatever of good comes to thee is from Allah; and whatever of evil befalls thee is from thyself. And We have sent thee as a Messenger to mankind.” Strengthening it He says, “. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness.” That is Allah is a witness over their antics.
To sum it all up, in 31:41 God quotes Job as saying “‘Satan has afflicted me with toil and torment.’ And not saying it. In 4:78 God mentions what the hypocrites say and tells the Prophet (pbuh) to say that “All is from Allah” and in 4:79 God ridicules what the hypocrites say and assures the Prophet (pbuh) that He is watching the. So, again, there’s no contradiction, only misunderstanding.
Namelee, my response to the third objection, in your last list od objections.
“3.Is allah merciful?
(a)Sura 6:12 YES. “HE HAS DECREED MERCY FOR HIMSELF”.
(b)Sura 6:35 NO. “HAD ALLAH PLEASED HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM GUIDANCE, ONE AND ALL–”.
Sura 14:4 NO. “BUT ALLAH LEAVES IN ERROR WHOM HE WILL AND GUIDES WHOM HE PLEASES”.
Allah is not merciful to those whom it chooses to leave in error.”
6:12 Say, ‘To whom belongs what is in the heavens and the earth?’ Say, ‘To Allah.’ He has taken upon Himself to show mercy. He will certainly continue to assemble you till the Day of Resurrection. There is no doubt in it. Those who ruin their souls will not believe.
I have often wondered that God has the whole universe to take care of, why should He get so concerned about what some flimsy creature on this insignificant globe get up to? The answer is He has chosen to be merciful. But His mercy to humans does not mean He’d ignore all that humans do, after right has been differentiated from wrong.
6:35 And if their aversion is grievous to thee, then, if thou art able to seek a passage into the earth or a ladder unto heaven, and bring them a Sign, thou canst do so. And had Allah enforced His will, He could surely have brought them together into the guidance. So be thou not of those who lack knowledge.
This means that if Allah had so chosen he could have programmed us to follow the righteous ways. (Of course that defeats the purpose of creating a being with freedom to choose.) This is the reason behind the admonition to the Prophet over his grief and worry over the aversion of the non-believers’ to what is right.
14:4 And We have not sent any Messenger except with the language of his people in order that he might make things clear to them. Then Allah lets go astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. And He is the Mighty, the Wise.
This means that Allah has given us humans the choice and lets us choose our poison and he does guide those, to the right path, who show willingness. A related verse could help understand this.
29:69 And as for those who strive in Our path — We will surely guide them in Our ways. And verily Allah is with those who do good.
To sum it all up, God Almighty has created us with brains that have the ability to choose right from wrong and arranged for right and wrong to be explained to us. If we choose the wrong path He won’t interfere and send us to hell as promised, but if we show a wish to follow the right path He will surely help (29:69 and 14:4) and save us. This seems to be the game plan which was hinted at in 6:35 and the prophet was admonished not to worry excessively over those who refused to follow the right path with “And had Allah enforced His will, He could surely have brought them together into the guidance. So be thou not of those who lack knowledge.” Of course all of the above is governed by God taking upon Himself to have mercy on His creatures 6:12.
Namely, here’s my response to your fourth objection in the last list and to the concluding remarks.
“3.Is allah merciful?
(a)Sura 6:12 YES. “HE HAS DECREED MERCY FOR HIMSELF”.
(b)Sura 6:35 NO. “HAD ALLAH PLEASED HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM GUIDANCE, ONE AND ALL–”.
Sura 14:4 NO. “BUT ALLAH LEAVES IN ERROR WHOM HE WILL AND GUIDES WHOM HE PLEASES”.
Allah is not merciful to those whom it chooses to leave in error.”
6:12 Say, ‘To whom belongs what is in the heavens and the earth?’ Say, ‘To Allah.’ He has taken upon Himself to show mercy. He will certainly continue to assemble you till the Day of Resurrection. There is no doubt in it. Those who ruin their souls will not believe.
I have often wondered that God has the whole universe to take care of, why should He get so concerned about what some flimsy creature on this insignificant globe get up to? The answer is He has chosen to be merciful. But His mercy to humans does not mean He’d ignore all that humans do, after right has been differentiated from wrong.
6:35 And if their aversion is grievous to thee, then, if thou art able to seek a passage into the earth or a ladder unto heaven, and bring them a Sign, thou canst do so. And had Allah enforced His will, He could surely have brought them together into the guidance. So be thou not of those who lack knowledge.
This means that if Allah had so chosen he could have programmed us to follow the righteous ways. (Of course that defeats the purpose of creating a being with freedom to choose.) This is the reason behind the admonition to the Prophet over his grief and worry over the aversion of the non-believers’ to what is right.
14:4 And We have not sent any Messenger except with the language of his people in order that he might make things clear to them. Then Allah lets go astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. And He is the Mighty, the Wise.
This means that Allah has given us humans the choice and lets us choose our poison and he does guide those, to the right path, who show willingness. A related verse could help understand this.
29:69 And as for those who strive in Our path — We will surely guide them in Our ways. And verily Allah is with those who do good.
To sum it all up, God Almighty has created us with brains that have the ability to choose right from wrong and arranged for right and wrong to be explained to us. If we choose the wrong path He won’t interfere and send us to hell as promised, but if we show a wish to follow the right path He will surely help (29:69 and 14:4) and save us. This seems to be the game plan which was hinted at in 6:35 and the prophet was admonished not to worry excessively over those who refused to follow the right path with “And had Allah enforced His will, He could surely have brought them together into the guidance. So be thou not of those who lack knowledge.” Of course all of the above is governed by God taking upon Himself to have mercy on His creatures 6:12.
“4.Will there be any inquiry on the Day of Judgment/paradise?
(a)Sura 23:101 NO. “NOR WILL ANYONE ASK AFTER ANOTHER–”.
(b)Sura 52:25 YES. “THEY ADVANCE UPON ANOTHER ASKING EACH OTHER QUESTIONS”.
Sura 37:27 YES. “–BUT TODAY THEY RESIGN THEMSELVES IN SUBMISSION AND ADVANCE ONE UPON ANOTHER; ASKING QUESTIONS–”.”
23:101 And when the trumpet is blown, there will be no ties of relationship between them that day, nor will they ask after one another.
This pertains to the start and says that when the trumpet is blown all attention will be to the call. (Could also mean that everyone would be worried about their own possible fate and so no one will be asking anyone any questions.)
52:25 And they will turn to one another, asking mutual questions.
All of 52:17-28 pertain to the dwellers of paradise after due process, with original confusion gone they would be settled in their new environ. Comparing this description to the description of original confusion and calling it a contradiction is dishonest beyond dishonest.
37:27 pertain to the dwellers of hell after the decision has been made and the original confusion gone. Again comparing the description of this state with the description of original confusion and calling it a contradiction does not make sense.
Let me close the analysis of this objection with a remark on all objections of this kind. They are usually designed to confuse with questions or original remarks crafted to sound like gospel truth and then some statements, lifted out of context, from the Quran or Hadith are offered to sound like contradictions. The best approach is to first check all those statements and their context. Hopefully while you are checking you will find the truth.
Now let’s attend to the concluding remarks.
“Sura 9 is all about war. These were wars that Muhammad initiated. … There is an attempt to revise history and portray Muhammad as a peaceful man who only resorted to war in defence. That is not supported by facts. The wars he led were called ‘qazwah’. Arabic speakers translate that to mean raids or attacks. To attack or raid shows who initiated the action. Defenders do not raid or attack.”
Of course Muhammad (pbuh) initiated those wars by migrating to Medina (Yathrab). He should have stayed in Mecca and suffered a fate worse than Jesus did. But he did not so by your very fair logic he stands accused of initiating those wars. He even made Meccans, poor Meccans, come to avenge a number of time themselves against the act of war he had perpetrated by escaping alive. By the way a Ghazwah was a war/expedition in which Muhammad (pbuh) participated. There was a war called Ghazwah Khandaq or the Battle of the Ditch. It was fought to defend Yathrab (Medina). Of course defending his new hometown was an “attack” in your prejudiced distorted book. Indeed some of the Ghazwat were expeditions to stop an invading army before it reached Medina and some were to thwart buildups, some to punish some miscreants and rebels and some were indeed to avenge the deaths of Muslims. If there was a situation
“I find it rather interesting that an adopted child should not bear the name of the adopted family so that it will not be an offense if the adopted father wants to take his son’s wife. That is very ‘practical’.”
Find it as interesting as you like but an illogical custom was broken here and no one was hurt in the process, nor was/is there any legal or ethical issue involved. Normally a sensible person would not raise it as an issue.
“It is also ‘practical’ for a divorcee not to reconcile with her husband until she has gone to bed with another man even if the reconciliation could be made within the shortest possible time.”
The purpose was to stop people from divorcing their wives, keeping them suspended and reclaiming them at will, causing a lot of heartache to women. As a result a lot of Muslim men do not divorce women at will and those who do have to risk the humiliation if the wish to reconcile. By the way proper Islamic divorce is a multi stage process and at the end of due process it is evident that the reconciliation is not possible.
“I have read in the quran that there are two ways of responding to a grievance: either forgiveness or retaliation. It may be appealing to the muhammadan to retaliate. But to the Christian, to forgive is divine. Each is dictated to by his history.”
Equitable retaliation is ordained to keep the Muslim society free of internal strife and bad blood and forgiveness is mentioned as a choice and as a means of winning favor with God. Usually forgiving is appealing to Muslims too. It is mentioned as part of 57:27 that “And We placed in the hearts of those who accepted him compassion and mercy. Yet We gave those of them who believed their due reward, but many of them are rebellious.”
Some of the compassion still shows but alas “but many of them are rebellious” is a more common sight. If we look at history closely we find that folks who call themselves Christians are the biggest killers and terrorists in history. Here’s a link to something I wrote in this regard some time ago: http://www.lohar.com/Who's%20the%20terrorist1.pdf
Muhammad Zafrullah,
In the quran, there was a contest between allah and satan when the later refused to bow to Adam arguing that Adam was a mere creation.
Trading, friendship and intercession are to be done before the day of judgment. Thereafter, no such thing will be allowed according to sura 2:253. This contradicts the other verses which say that there will be intercession.
None of these verses alludes to ‘a give and take’ situation.
Allah is not ridiculing the hypocrites in sura 4:78. It is actually confirming to Muhammad that everything, whether good or bad, originates from it. Just two sentences down allah reiterates its position: “WHATEVER GOOD BEFALLS YOU(MAN), IT IS FROM ALLAH AND WHATEVER ILL, FROM YOURSELF”.
On allah being merciful, the quran says:”IF HE(ALLAH) HAD WILLED”. There is no discretion left for the one already destined for hell for it was programed for him to be there. Allah cannot be merciful while at the same time closing its mind to some people. That such people are unable to accept the ‘message’ is because allah has made it so.
…
Namelee, here’s my response to you latest
“In the quran, there was a contest between allah and satan when the later refused to bow to Adam arguing that Adam was a mere creation.”
Go read the Book of Job and know the difference between a contest painted by the scribes and the dialogue between God and Satan quoted in the Quran. Also you are grossly misquoting the Quran by saying: ”refused to bow to Adam arguing that Adam was a mere creation.” Satan insisted that God had made Adam from clay and had made him from fire so he was superior. Also in such dialogues Satan is quoted as requesting respite until the Day of Judgment, showing that this was no contest.
Trading, friendship and intercession are to be done before the day of judgment. Thereafter, no such thing will be allowed according to sura 2:253. This contradicts the other verses which say that there will be intercession.
None of these verses alludes to ‘a give and take’ situation.
You may lack the knowhow necessary to understand that there is no contradiction here.
Allah is not ridiculing the hypocrites in sura 4:78. It is actually confirming to Muhammad that everything, whether good or bad, originates from it. Just two sentences down allah reiterates its position: “WHATEVER GOOD BEFALLS YOU(MAN), IT IS FROM ALLAH AND WHATEVER ILL, FROM YOURSELF”.
There are only two instances of that kind of statement (1) in 4:78 where the hypocrites target the Prophet and it goes as: And if some good befalls them, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ and if evil befalls them, they say, ‘This is from thee.’ Say, ‘All is from Allah.’ And (2) in 4:79 where it goes as: Whatever of good comes to thee is from Allah; and whatever of evil befalls thee is from thyself. And We have sent thee as a Messenger to mankind. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness.
In both cases the Prophet (pbuh) is being addressed and why have you changed “WHATEVER GOOD BEFALLS YOU” to “WHATEVER GOOD BEFALLS YOU(MAN),”? Now you cannot wriggle out of this by saying that the Prophet was a man. You are trying to insinuate that it is mentioned as a rule for all me and reading 4:79 negates that. Now this does not bring me pleasure to point out to you that you did something similar when you “quoted” people knowledgeable in Arabic translating “ghazwah” as “attack”. Well this is dishonest.
On allah being merciful, the quran says:”IF HE(ALLAH) HAD WILLED”. There is no discretion left for the one already destined for hell for it was programed for him to be there. Allah cannot be merciful while at the same time closing its mind to some people. That such people are unable to accept the ‘message’ is because allah has made it so.
This is a topic that may be hard even for some Muslims, with knowledge of Arabic, to understand and you have displayed a clear ignorance of Arabic. So it would be very hard to explain it to you that there is no contradiction here. After God created us and we made our choices, He will save us depending on our wish to follow the path leading to Him. The only time we did not have choice was before we were created as sentient beings and ushered into cause and effect environ.
Muhammad Zafrullah,
Anyone who disobeys his/her superior is contesting the authority of such superior. That was what Iblis did concerning bowing down to Adam as ordered by allah. At least you have admitted that there ensued a ‘dialogue’ which did not result in Iblis shifting ground.
My lack of know how is not the issue. Your failure to dislodge the contradictions is.
I have not changed a thing in the quran. I put down what is contained in the version I used. If that is not in yours, then blame the write.There are better things to store in my brain than cram the quran verbatim for later reproduction. I quote where possible and at other times paraphrase. What matters is the meaning it conveys. I have no interest in being a ‘hafiz’ or expert reciter.
You say that I have referred to your prophet as a man. Was he not a man? Or is that passage not meant for man?
On the qazwah issue, you did not deny its meaning as I gave but only expanded it to include the ‘defense’ of Medina during the battle of the trench. It still remains “attack” or “raid”.
By saying that the Arabic quran is difficult, even for Arabic speakers, to understand, you have highlighted another contradiction for allah says that the book is simple and unambiguous.
A community reading of the quran shows that allah predestines everything leaving no room for man to exercise any discretion.
Having not refuted the contradictions I pointed out in my last post, it is undeniable that you have admitted them. …