Video: Separation of Mosque-Church and State, Ex Leader of Jamaat Islami will Prove its Need

Separation of Mosque and State

Separation of Mosque and State, for the Muslim Times’ collection, please click here

Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times

If anyone was not conviced completely about the paramount need for Separation of Mosque-Church and State, this video clip should do the trick for him or her. In this interview Munawar Hasan the leader of the largest religio-political party in Pakistan is perfectly comfortable in denying rape victims any forensic evidence and keeping them in jail, if they are unable to produce four eye witnesses.

In this interview, one of the most learned scholars and proponent of Sharia says that if a woman is raped and does not have four male witnesses, regardless of other circumstances, she should better be quiet.

The learned scholar does not suggest how the victim should negotiate with the potential witnesses before the legal hearing in presence of strict Purdah requirements, to make sure that they are not going to deviate from their testimony.

Such lack of insight and empathy should send shivers down the spine of every sensitive human being!

All the moderate Muslims may be better off under any Western law rather than such medieval understanding of Sharia Law.

My apologies to the English readers, for the video clip is in Urdu. You will need to find an Urdu translator.

Munawar Hasan is also completely unable to conceptualize that he may not have the correct interpretation of the Holy Quran.

 

The non-Muslims should, however, recognize that Islam and Muslims are not monolithic and there are moderate and reasonable voices in Islam as well.

The non-Muslims should, however, recognize that Islam and Muslims are not monolithic and there are moderate and reasonable voices in Islam as well.

Additional Reading

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22 replies

  1. Apple does not fall too far from its tree and most humans including powerful leaders do not travel too far from their myopic self interest or limited life experiences.

  2. According to the leader of Jamaat Islami, a woman has to produce 4 male witnesses if she is raped. And if she cannot do it then either she should not file a complaint of rape or she should be punished for false accusation. The ignorant mullah is basing his opinion on his understanding of the Quran and constantly insisting that if his explanation is not accepted then the other person is not a Muslim.
    This is the typical way of religious leaders and scholars to intimidate those Muslims who question certain false and wrong concepts within Islam. They do not encourage independent thinking and enquiry. They promote “shirk” of “aqeedat”. Most Muslims today are “mushrik” because they are blind followers of one religious leader or another. They have not read the quran and have no knowledge of the religion and never question their religious leaders.
    Quran does not say what the mullah is saying, but who will challenge him?

  3. The Holy Quran and Allah are infallible, but, our understanding of the Quran is very much fallible, unless angel Gabriel is visiting frequently and then most of the Muslims will not know, who the lucky one is.

  4. God still talks to those whom He loves. This is the teaching of Promised Messiah(peace be on him)of ahmaddiyya community.

  5. As far as I understand, Islam gives the benefit to the accused not the accuser. If a man/woman accuses the other (usually spouse ) to be unfaithful, the accuser has to provide witnesses not the other way round. If they cannot produce witnesses to the crime, they have to curse themselves three times for lying. This is a very sensitive matter not something to be joked about.

  6. Hazrat Khalifatul Massiah 5th travels far and wide ,is not myopic. He mentions that he prayed,and God talked to him.

  7. The chosen and the lucky one in the present day is Khalifatul Massiah,but majority of muslims do not know, true,

  8. There is a saying of the Promised Messiah, may peace be upon him, and it is recorded in one of the Malfoozat that I have come to make saints and not saint worshipers.

    Let us hope and pray that we become the formers and not the latter, as the Messiah of our era expected us to.

  9. The Quran prescribes punishment for adultery, (consensual sex). To avoid frivolous complaints the burden of poof is four eye witnesses in addition to the accuser. Now you cannot have four witnesses unless the act was in public. So the Quran is trying to prevent public acts of sex or pornography which have become pretty common these days in the West.
    As for all the other sex crimes including rape, any other evidence such as forensic evidence is admissible. There is no regulation of four eye witnesses. Since rape is a crime, the burden of proof will be on the prosecutor and not the victim. Victim will be provided all the help and support needed. If evidence proves the crime, the defendant will be punished. (Not necessarily 100 lashes)
    If the crime is not proven, the victim will not face the “hud” for “qazaf” (false accusation). The qazaf is for men only. It is for those men who make up stories of their affairs and sexual liaisons with women and spread them around falsely implicating innocent women. The intent is to protect the honor of the women.

  10. All,praise belongs to Allah.There are many people in our community in this era ,who have living communion with Allah,but they don’t boast about it.This is His blessing.They are just humble,weak servants of Allah.In International Alfazal we read about them.There is a famous saying that eyes only see what is in your mind.Remember chances favour the trained minds.Mulana Mubarak Nazir loves to talk about living communion with living God so does Dr.Faheem of USA Ahmadiyya community.
    .

  11. That Ameer jama’at islami (munawwar Hassan) was not understanding the nature of the crime. Rape is different to adultery and fornication, by all means.
    Adultery and fornication fall in the realm of willing acts, by full agreement or partial willingness.
    Rape is an excessive unwanted attack. I do not know if it is described or covered under any head in the Quran. But it is partially covered in Bible OT.
    If the matter is not covered in the Quran then the punishment or decision should be taken according to the Jewish law.
    The prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. prayed facing Jerusalem as long as new order arrive. Similarly, the prophet s.a.w.s. stoned the adulterers to death until new orders about flogging arrived (Surah Noor 24:2-3)
    Four witnesses can never be produced by the victim. Rather four or more persons may be involved on the men side who are engaged in the rape of a single woman who has no one to save her.
    Why Munawwar Hassan is pressing hard to deal it according to Quran when rape has not been discussed in Quran? (I am not sure if t is mentioned under any category)
    Munawwar Hassan is applying the case of four witnesses which meant in the Quran for willing illegal sexual act. The TV anchor sahib asked very good questions. Munawwar never replied. Munawwar even accused the anchor to be non-Muslim.
    This is the problem why Allah does not allow the present day Mullas to lead the people. First of all, they consider every one who has not recited the Kalimah, as Kafir. Then the Mullas are ready to kill every non-believer i.e.Kafir while not understanding the real meaning of Kafir.
    Then they are misguiding the public about serious crimes. They are ready to kill every apostate who tried to change his faith.
    All that is against the Quranic teachings. Allah will never give any command in the hands of these Mullas and their supporters.

  12. It is very easy to give such silly arguments about rape victims by Mr.Munawar Hussain to an illiterate Muslim audience, who because of lack of knowledge can fall into his trap. Such illogical and unreasonable “commandments” which he associates with the Quran, cannot be accepted in any society which claims to be based on “justice”.

    He forgets that it is the claim of the Quran that by acting upon its commandments the human beings can create a “just” society.

  13. Also the question arises what those four four able-bodied men doing there with the couple and why did they not stop the rape from happening?

  14. Once again the requirement for four witnesses is only in case of adultery (consensual sex outside of marriage). There is no such requirement for rape.

  15. I think, to some extent you can keep it separate — like at state level you make laws which stops discrimination or injustice (like we already see in many modern states). Nevertheless justice and equality are basic teachings of all religions so basically you are not keeping them separate in that case either. The main problem as i see is that some dictators or people with power mix Religion to their wrong ideas or wrong worldly and political gains.
    Also in many other ways – ideologies / local traditions/ cultures and Religion or Religious Beliefs are part and parcel of social fiber norms and also laws. In Ahmadiyya Or Islamic state can you make laws which are against the Maroof (Commonly accepted) teachings of Islam? Can you change the Harams and Halals? Make sure we are not following an other snobbish slogan here.

  16. … Continued
    India is a good example where different sets of laws are in practice. Family and personal laws are made in accordance with common practices of the relevant group or religious communities. So you can make a common set of laws for every needs for every kind of people — like civil and non civil laws, but you can also keep an other set of laws or make exceptions for a set of people who believe in different ideals or Religion. This is already practised successfully in many countries and we shud appreciate it. People as i see, are share holders of lands and properties (and not just subjects) and so shud they be treated. That’s why I think Islam emphasizes majority to take care of minorities under Muslims, which may or may not be practised properly by many Muslims today, and that’s where the problem lies.

  17. The basic premise of Sharia is to deliver justice and protect the honor and property of all subjects of the state without regard to their religion. Delivering punishments is not the primary objective. This is why since the inception of Islam the Quranic punishments have been an exception rather than the rule in Muslim ruled countries.

  18. These Jama’at Islami people have no real religious knowledge and no worldly knowledge too. So they have no peace of mind.
    Recently Junaid Jamshed (JJ) abused Hazrat Aisha Rz.a. Now some Tableeghi Jama’at (TJ) leaders are dissociating themselves from JJ (and vice versa).
    But they may be lying. The TJ people have six sacred books which they read and promote in their sermons. I am sure that the incident reported by JJ must be found described in the books of Tableeghi Jama’at.
    Copies of the very old books of Jama’at Islami and TJ such as Tafseer and periodicals should be kept safe for future reference as use.

  19. I write in support of Nadi: I heard a Hadith. The prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. while on his death bed, he said, “I am worried and afraid that you (believers) will not do justice to the minorities.”
    I do not have any reference of this Hadith with me but I sure read it somewhere.
    It is reported that he spoke those words many times and could be taken as his last words.

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