Source: The Conservative Papers via Mr Hasan
Notice the Arabic Graffiti painted on one of the burned cars.
Interior Minister Manuel Valls said Tuesday that 1,193 vehicles were burned overnight around the country. Clashes between police and offenders in the New Year’s Eve took place in the Muslim majority districts in the city of Strasbourg and Mulhouse. About seven police officers were attacked New Years eve night.
This headline was created by a conservative US blog. It is interesting how many blogs there are that especially exist to collect negative News about ‘Muslims’. A criminal is a criminal is a criminal. No ‘good Muslim’ would burn cars. ‘Good Muslims’ collect trash on New Year – as members of the Khuddams (Young Men’s Association) of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at do here and there. These conservative US blogs however would not like to bring that News.
Dear Khan
I have sent the following to the original article source.
Bashy
____________
The headline of your article written on January 1, 2013, by alpineski: “Muslims Burn About 1,200 cars on New Year’s Eve in France”, filed under Terrorism in The Conservative Papers blog, is in itself discriminatory and Islamophobic.
While burning cars, committing crime and taking part in violent actions must be condemned in the strongest fashion, I must point out to you that Islam is neither a race, nationality nor an ethnicity. When an American, British or German person commits a crime of this type, you do not write; A Christian does that so why the word Muslim is used in connection with these thugs. Do you have a religious and political motive behind with such overheads? It seems so to me especially when you claim to have solutions and Ideas for Preserving Freedom in the USA.
Right, Thanks Quraishy Sahib, we hear of Muslim terrorists and now Muslim car burners. Once I even read of a Muslim strip-tease-lady in London. As the so-called Muslim strip-tease-lady in London has left her heritage and religion far behind, so have car burners and murderers. Did we ever read of Christian ‘strip-tease-girls’? Or Christians car-burners? Or Christian terrorists?
Muslims in emulation of the best of the best Holy Prophet Muhammad ( peace and the blessings of Allah be on him) must be a source of “mercy unto the mankind.”
We are not made to destroy others properties and cause chaos and disorder on for Allah loves not those who create disorder on earth.
This is the most critical and sensitive time for all and the world is apt to attack Islam and its followers – the Muslims who should at best display an exemplary and loving behavior toward mankind.
We have been raised (declared the best suited) to serve mankind.
Only LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE can transform the sad Muslim conduct. I join all the writers and editors in this forum not just point fingers and display to the world how bad we are but sincerely pray for unprecedented change in our behavior towards mankind.
Let us all be a source of comfort and guidance. Ameen!
O Muslims, accept Islam Ahmadiyyat. This is the true Islam which was brought by the holy Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.
May Allah guide you to the right path.
Abu Omar
Dear Omar
Islam does not allows sects and making a distinction among Muslims. What is true Islam is only known to the creator but we can all make an effort to be a good human being( Insan) and not a good Muslim etc.
I personally think that Muslims should stop calling each other names and passing Fatwas.It is destructive.
Kind regards
Nobody is calling anybody names. In fact, Omar sb is just doing what we, as Muslims have been commanded to do – call others including misled Muslims to come back to the true Islamic teachings.
Also, Ahmadis are not given to issuing fatwas. The other Muslims, are.
And none of the above writers have called anybody names. The most they have done is mentioned ‘so-called’ Muslims in the right places.
Dear Raziya
When someone says; ” O Muslims, accept Islam Ahmadiyyat”, he/she is insinuating that there are two types of Islam. One, the ole Islam and then the new one called Islam Ahmadiyyat.
This is not only against historical common sense but also divisive.Islam as a religion has many interpretations, sects and movements in it but these are in my opinion under an umbrella called Islam. Not Sunni, Shiah or Ahmadiyyat Islam.
There is no such thing called “Other Muslims or so-called Muslims”, Raziya. There are Muslims and non-Muslims. It is not up to you, me or anyone else to judge the degree of someone’s Islam. That authority is only divine. I hope that you are getting my point.
I cannot understand. What is this burning about????
Why are they not being seriously dealt with?
Yes, Anisa. That also is a BIG question left unanswered by the write up.
Dear commentators on this thread
While on the surface, problems like this always seem very simple and we want an immediate action against those who commit such horrible acts, the reality is very complex and needs to tackled on long term basis.
My organization EMISCO – The European Muslim Initiative for Social Cohesion has head office in Strasbourg. I travel there often and have close contacts with NGOs who work with youth in France.
I did try to get the facts of the matter behind this latest episode of car burning on New Years Eve there.
Most young people who took part in this orgy of violence live in suburbs in run down buildings, come from broken families without education, a stake in future, harassed by police on daily basis and felt angry at the socialist government of France who sent a representative to Strasbourg just before the New Year to openly admonish the Arab youth. In this day and age, it is a recipe of disaster. Anyhow, these youth are very difficult to talk to, feel marginalized and look at the French society as an enemy. On top of this Islamophobia has played a great deal of influence in escalating the situation. They are all born and bread in France but are heavily influenced by both the French and their own parent’s upbringing. The combination of all these factors has made it very hard to find a solution at present. More and strict sentences is counter productive and produces hardened criminals instead of reformed youth.
I personally believe that through the education of the next generation, the problem of violence would reduce.
Anyone that claims to be a Muslim but does Un-Islamic things can rightfully be called a so called Muslim; i.e a Muslim by name. But we have no right to call him a Non-Muslim.
God say for such people in the Holy Quran that such people can say we are Muslim but faith has not entered into their hearts.
Muslim do have categories. Non practising Muslims and a practising Muslim. And a Momin anabsolute believer. All Muslims do not have the same status. The some are good some bad and some worse then a Pagan. Because although they call them selves a Muslim but commit every sin, including Shirk.Pakistan is full of such Muslims that prostrate on graves of saints.They are name sake Muslims . Emaan (faith) has not entered into their hearts.
Yes you are right Razia Sister.
Dear Anisa
You have not understood the message of Islam if you think that you have the right to classify Muslims. We must not label human beings. Period.This right does not belong to us by law or divine injunction.
The act of burning cars as I have tried to explain in my earlier comment has nothing to do with religion, culture or race. It is a socio-economic issue.
Please read my comment first.
It is true they did not understand message of Islam, but it shows Muslim frustration on intolerant behavior of French government is fueling this all reactions as they keep on insulting Muslim for Hijab and other kinds of threats to their well being. Look at them, they are still reluctant in taking Turkey in European Union.
O Muslims accept the Imam of the age which Allah has appointed as a reformer
who is Mehdi and Masea..
I have the right to invite my fellow Muslim brothers which i feel is better for them and
they will be blessed by accepting THE IMAM OF THE AGE who is reformer withen
ISLAM.
Dear Ahmed
your statement ; “O Muslims accept the Imam of the age which Allah has appointed as a reformer who is Mehdi and Masea”may be fine in some other circumstances, but in this particular case ( French riots) is not only out of place but also smacks of missionary zeal. Please do not make a sad event of burning cars in to a religious problem!.
…….And the Muslims are candy eating babies they get easily get aggravated and frustrated to start acting like fools and defame Islam. Instead of showing any vision of a Momin and a True Muslim.
Intolerance, hatred for others and pride of being “pious” or chosen ones from God has seized their senses.
The do not watch their own “conduct”. It is easy to play blame game. And label every misdeed on the other’s head.
If have any sense, and if they are being mistreated they should adopt a positive sensible effective strategy. A strategy that will solve the problem without harming anyone and anything. What is the use of burning cars like senseless illiterate uncivilized bush people.
Dear Mr. qureshy!
That’s not true that Islam is only known to Creator. Allah also reveals eternal truth to whom he pleases according to Qur’an. And since Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS claimed to be promised messiah and Mahdi so through him the Creator reveled what is true Islam. So Mr. Qureshy you are wrong.
Tell me one more thing why Allah started a new religion when there were already existing revealed through Him specially Jews were still professing and practicing one God? and Why Allah decreed that from now on only Islam will be acceptable as a religion & faith?
Dear Qureshy Could you please define what is true Islam rather advising other? What would you say about religious extremist advocating and supporting their extremist view with the help of Hadiths and Qur’an and on the other hand it is you supporting your views by means of Qur’an……..even only with your case you prove to have a different version of Islam. How can you advise other to stop presenting their views and invitations? Please do not try to be too smart!
I don’t see any problem when Raziya calls other Muslims or so-called Muslims? Allah says in Qur’an Arab biddus cannot call themselves momineen; Rasool SAW says that of his companions will be hell-bound and Muslims generally at the time Mahdi will be name-sake Muslims …………then…………Mr Quresy how can you justify your point?
Ahmadi Muslims do not issue Kufr fatwa as others do but it is our due right to differentiate from others and you cannot object on it.
Dear Mr. Qureshy!
You efforts under your organization are futile and all your endeavors are in vain until you come under divine protection and leadership of Jam’at Ahmadiyya. History is a witness that many people and group of people and even nations tried to lead or guide Muslims after Imam Mahdi advent but fiasco. I am sorry Mr. Qureshy you and your organization will make no difference at all. Take my word.
Dear Anisa
Sorry to say that but it seems that you have no understanding of the reality in the suburbs in most Western countries, where ethnic and religious minorities live.
Since I have a pretty good idea of the facts on the ground, I am going to explain it to you one last time. It is up to you to, either try to fathom my point or simply be caught up in your “Holier than Thou” mindset.
In many European cities, there have been riots in the last 50 years, where no person with Muslim background was involved until very recently. In Brixton – a suburb of London, in the riots of sixties and eighties, the youth were from Caribbean. There have been riots in Belgium by African immigrants and riots in Holland by Malaccans from Indonesia and so on.
The riots are a socioeconomic issue and has as little to do with Islam as Nazism has to do with Christianity. These youth have never said that they were burning cars because they are Muslims. It is the western press, which has called them Muslim youth. Why do you think, this is described as such? It is because of Islamophobia and anti-Islam atmosphere.
I have always condemned such behavior because in any civilized society, such actions are not and should not be tolerated but we should also condemn racist and Islamophobic discourse of the western media and authorities. That point, you very elegantly have bypassed. I understand your viewpoint though it is a superficial analysis.
How can an oppressed person can adopt a positive sensible effective strategy as you write, when authorities do not listen and have pushed these French youth to the suburbs of the cities and have marginalized them. Have you ever lived in such Ghettos Anisa? What do you know about their lives in such circumstances?
So what is the lesson learnt. Education of the coming generations and finding jobs for these unemployed youth with Arab roots who happen to have a religion called Islam.
Having said that it should be stressed that under no circumstances, I approve of violence, burning and looting. All I am trying to do is to give the readers of this post the over all picture, which is badly needed in such circumstances.
Dear Brother Quraishy
( Quraishy is my sir name from my father’s side.)
I would very much like to understand what you said. But I an unable to.
I would humbly like to convey what I have to say.
What happened in the past in west or east has passed. we cannot do anything to change it. But if we learn a lesson from it and avoid repeating the same mistake that lead to a failure will be a very wise approach.
We cannot, like children say he id it why cant I? Or if he did so can I. History is the strongest academy of teaching and source of knowledge plus a role model guideline to success. Wise will learn from it.
I believe there are hate mongers everywhere. in every nation every race. west is no exception.The only thing that lead to fall of Muslims rule was infidelity and disloyalty of our own people. If a person from your own home opens a door to a thief or robber who is to be blamed?
If we see in the major part of Muslim world there is unrest and chaos. Even if the western strategy or conspiracy is the cause of it who is to be blamed? Is Ummah sleeping or a thumb suckling baby.What were the Muslim leadership doing when this was in the process of happening?
rejoicing. Enjoying the oil wealth in their luxurious Palaces. And travelled in the gold made jewel studded cars.Their luxury ships.
And what I know these western when conquered south Asia specially the subcontinent of India, they did a lot of reforms there. A lots of development. Railways, Hospitals, Universities, colleges and schools. Justice prevailed.Roads were made in big cities they were washed. There was a strong government system.And when they left. We could not even run that set up.And yes they also captured our historical artifacts that were priceless and transferred them to their lands. But again who let them do that.Why we are so incapable to protect our own self.
You said,
“How can an oppressed person can adopt a positive sensible effective strategy as you write, when authorities do not listen and have pushed these French youth to the suburbs of the cities and have marginalized them. Have you ever lived in such Ghettos Anisa? What do you know about their lives in such circumstances?”
I do not know the reason why have they been pushed out of cities. If it is only because they are Muslims. Then if the abide within law and pray and seek help from God their efforts will never be wasted. But if they do otherwise, take law and order in hand, then be asured no help from God will ever descend on them
The only need is they turn to God for help with humility and distress and patience. For sure they will be helped. Insha’Allah.
We Ahmadis are doing it around the globe. What level of hatred and discrimination we do not face? Still we prosper. Why? Because we rely on God. We do not beg demand or snatch from the oppressor. We refrain from them to avoid unrest or blood shed.
We do not harm he infra structure or spread unrest.
Some wise man said, I can forgive anybody’s mistake but mine.You cant do a right with awrong.
Being a Pakistani Ahamadi who can pass through more oppression the us?
The place where we are living now is the western countries. we were compelled by the lowest level of injustice served to us on this fateful land.
We do face religious and skins colour discrimination even here in the west, but very rarely.
But there is a huge difference as compared with the discrimination we face in Pakistan. There it is approved by law. But here it is individual,not backed by the law. If reported to the authorities the culprits are dealt strictly. Look what happening in Scotland to the women who spoke racist words and pulled the Hijab of a Muslim woman.And justice is served regardless of race colour or creed.
Can this justice be served any more in a Muslim society and country now a days??? NO not at all. These are the tales of the past.When Muslims were dignified and practised Islam. Now we have but mostly low profile Muslims, scholars leaders. We should be ashamed of.The scholars of 14th century that are the worst of mankind under the canopy of sky.
At one hand you said they are Arab jobless youths that are not listened by the authority what should they do in frustration? minds cannot focus in such situation.
On the other you said , it is a propaganda of the non muslims that they are labelling it on Muslims.
Are these Arab Youths atheist? Have they no God to complain and seek help from?. Or they believe God is not capable of helping them in a Non Muslim foreign land. The only solution is burning the cars.
As I understood this is being practised from past many years. What benefit have they gain so far? has there been any relief or solution made by burning cars?
I am sure the answer is a big NO. They would rather have more downfall. Because ether will follow no blessing in this misconduct. No wrong can result into a right.
It is just unbelievable that Muslims have no hope on God and take law and order in hand .Ruin the peace of the society they live in.
Although they know this type of retaliation has no gain but only loss. Loss to the government, the country they reside and take certain privileges from.
A good Muslim or rather a good human will never take the law in their own hand and destroy the property of one’s own country.
The followers of the holy Prophet may peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him can never do that.
mmmm…. may be we can understand the issue better, if our comments are shorter?
I quote from Quraishy Sahib’s comment:
‘The riots are a socioeconomic issue and has as little to do with Islam as Nazism has to do with Christianity.’
I think this is the main point in respect to the article.
Yes I agree with Br. Rafiq A. Tschannen that comments should be as brief as possible. When you write long comments, do you think all people read them?
Abu Omar
Dear Ahmed
You asked me; Dear Qureshy Could you please define what is true Islam rather advising other?
Well if you do not know what true Islam is then I am wasting my time discussing the issue with you.
For me, Islam is a religion, which completed earlier Jewish and Christian messages of divine guidance to mankind.
I have no problem if a new Messiah claims that he/she is getting the revelations because throughout history, there have been many who claimed the same thing. But this does not mean that you can claim that Creator has reveled to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS, what is true Islam and start a new religion. When you say that, you seem to be saying that the Islam, which was revealed to Prophet Mohammed, was false. For most Muslims it is a non-starter. By the way, Mirza Sahib never claimed that he was replacing Islam with true Islam. He loved Prophet Mohammad and always maintained that Mohammed was the last Prophet. Please check your facts.
I am not a religious person. I believe in goodness of humanity and anyone who does good works is close to God. Anyhow, I would not want to go into clinch with you about who is right and who is wrong. So let us stop this debate here and I shall not answer anymore of your religious questions.
Kind regards
It maybe initially a socio-economic issue. But if it is specifically attached to only a certain group of people then for sure it does not remain only a socio-economic issue.
One has to look where, what and who went wrong.
Dear Anisa Quraishy
Thank you very much for your long comment, which I enjoyed a lot.
Unfortunately, you have mixed many diverse issues, which need to be debated among Muslims of all shades and persuasions.
But I would thank Rafiq A. Tschannen for his hitting on the nail. The whole debate started with an article in a very right wing and anti-Muslim blog, where this incident in Strasbourg was referred to as Muslims burn cars. It was this description of youth, I and Rafiq A. Tschannen took exception to and I am sure, you also think was wrong. That is all, what I was criticizing.
Kind regards
Bashy
PS: As much as I hate and condemn the persecution of minorities in Pakistan and other Muslim countries, I am against making Pyramids of discrimination. Ahmedis have suffered in Pakistan, there is no doubt about it but to say that they have no 1 position in suffering is very unfair. Look at what is being done to Shias, Hindus and Christians.Taliban have killed more Sunnis than any other group. We should condemn all these acts of violence against humans. That should be our starting point. Make alliances with others who are being treated badly. This way, you will stand strong.
Mr. Qureshy you know very well what is true Islam according to me but your retreat has confirmed my notion about your understanding on Islam.
Yes, that is true Islam perfected (not completed merely) everything what was not or corrupt in other religious scriptures including Torah and Gospel etc and it should also be never forgot that followers of almost all religions and faiths have been waiting a Messiah in the end times and that it is also an indispensable and inevitable part of their faiths to believe in that Messiah otherwise faith is incomplete and not acceptable. Please get your facts straight.
Yes indeed you are in great problem, misery and affliction if you reject that Messiah who is truthful in his claim or anybody as well who rejects him considering a false claimant. And that is the reason we see specially Muslims in so much trouble and humiliation because Messiah being an Imam among Muslims, Muslims have the highest liability to accept him and support him.
How can you make such a big claim that Ahamdis don’t have the right to assert that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was and is the same Messiah and imam Mahdi who has been prophesied in qur’an and Hadiths? I can see your depth of knowledge on Ahmadiyyat and Islam when you blamed Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to start a new religion. He never and ever did this instead he claimed after receiving revelations that he is the long-awaited Messiah and Mahdi to restore peace, justice and supremacy of Islam as a religion as mentioned in qur’an and practiced by Rasool SAW.
What is your point of view by the way when Christians and Jews blame Rasool SAW to be a false claimant (Astaghfirullah-Godforbid) of receiving revelation or a final prophet? Should you or Muslims stop believing him true final prophet? Mr. Qureshy! please do have a second look what you write; there is complete loss of coordination between your thoughts & your words.
Mr. Qureshy! I would have not plunged into this discussion, had I encountered extremely disturbing and twisting comments from you. It was you who started advising other to correct their stances on religious points and when found unanswered suddenly changed your position saying and claiming ……..I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON……..and still it can be seen from your comments that you have a powerful religious motivation and a kind of traditional conceit approach towards Jama’at Ahmadiyya. …..Same attitude is the main reason of all problems we see in Ummah. Hidden arrogance and lack of knowledge yet erroneously assume oneself on right path and other on wrong path. When you do not have knowledge, please do not start teaching others. All these youth who burnt cars or we see almost in all Muslim world committing violation, crimes of all sorts, belong to your group not ours, who reject their promised Messiah and consider to prosper with own efforts. You will not find a single Ahmadi youth doing such things. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed AS claims, his just divine deputation and mission have proved true through all set of inductions and judgments even with evidential witnesses. As long as Muslims like you remain in this wishful thinking that they have rejected a false claimant, they will remain in problems and unfathomable humiliation. Whereas Allah is continuously bestowing his blessings and honors on His party of Islam despite how others look on it. An undeniable reality.
Last thing your comment…Pyramids of discrimination? WOW! You mean for Ahmadis the degree of persecution is almost the same as other minorities have to suffer. Sheer nonsense!
In Pakistan Ahmadis cannot call themselves Muslims while Christians and Hindus call themselves whatever they want
In Pakisatn Ahmadis cannot call to prayers while Christians and hindus can
In Pakisatn Ahmadis cannot cast vote while Christians and hindus can
In Pakisatn Ahmais are apostate and their killing is permitted instead recommended while Christians and hindus do not have such problem. I myself have experience to witness these killings.
In Paksiatn Ahmadis have been exclusively deprived of their basic human rights and you are saying here that they are not on no. 1 position ?
When these constitutional Muslims started persecuting Ahmadi the true Muslims in the first stage everybody kept quite (just in religious grudge) and even content and happy but see how Allah has punished these so-called Muslims now the fire has reached every house and exactly it was warned and predicted by Jam’at caliphs. Mr. Qureshy! It’s a punishment these so-called Muslims are getting for what they did in the name of Allah and His Rasool SAW. Just imagine if French Government disband practicing Islam and declare Muslims follower of a false religion or apostates then I see, how you say “Muslims have the same degree of persecution as other religious minorities are having.”
I shall sincerely invite you to join Jam’at Ahamdiyya if you really want to make your efforts fruitful…..otherwise….
This is also my last comment on this post nevertheless. I may not be able to come so often. May Allah guide you all on right path Ameen.
Take care & Best Regards
Dear Anisa
I think, that we have come to the end of line in this discussion.
If you wish to maintain that the youth in France who burnt the car did that because they are bad Muslims, then there is nothing, I can do to change your opinion. I have tried to explain to you in every which way possible but may be you know these youth better. So let us leave it at that.
Kind regards
Bashy
I am sorry perhaps I am not able to convey what I wanted to say. But be assured we are as sympathetic and as concerned for other Muslims well being as it can be.(Even more then they themselves can).
The difference is that Ahmadis do not kill back even if they are killed. They do NOT take law and order in hand like the others do.
I cannot be more clearer then this.
Sister Anisa has explaned every thing well, but it is impossible to understand by our
fellow muslim brothers because their true belive has gone up to “surya” star.what
Jamaat Ahmadiyya is facing the worst persecution in Pakistan but we do “Saber”
as the Holy Prophet s.a.w. and his companions were doing “Sabar” in Mecca fourteen
hundred years ago. This “SABER” shows that this Jamaat is bringing back the
the true belive from “surya”star to back on the earth. This is the Jamaat of “RAJLEFARAS”. Fellow mulims they only put blame on west which is somehow true,
but they don’t want to rectify their own mistakes. This rectification is only possible
when they will come in to the fold of Islam Ahmadiyyat.
I read all commemts and it was very thorogh discussion about Islam and the Muslums. It was very interesting and helpful to understand the situation. But It signifies only one thing whatever happened was wrong and root causes should be removed and who took law in their hands should be brought to the justice. We all if want a common place to solve these kind of situations, we have only choice to accept the Imam of the Age and seek guidance with prayers from Almighty Allah, the most graciuose and merciful.
Brother Ahmad I missed your post. I am obliged by your comments. Thank you and God Bless you.Amen
We the Ahmadis have been blessed by Allah for having a rational approach. Alahmdulillah
Brother that is something contradictory to Quran.
“Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: `We hear and we disobey’; And `Hear you may not hear’; and with a twist of their tongues and a slander to faith…” (Al-Nisa:47)
I’m not a ‘brother’! As I’ve mentioned before, you’ve got all your Islamic and Christian teachings mixed up.
Please, acquire proper knowledge about both and THEN argue here.
Also, I would suggest another book for you to read, ‘The Bible, the Qur’an and Science’ by Maurice Buccaille. In this you will find ample comparison between the two scriptures and how and where they differ.
Till then, and when you’ve applied proper logic and reason to your allegations, I don’t want to discuss this with you.
Salam to everyone. Peace. I am closing the discussion here, as there are too many topics under discussion.
Let us meet in a different post. I will soon make a post about the Bible, the Quran and Science. Perhaps all of us can meet there.
Best Regards!