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Nation of BARBARIANS period
With love for Jinnah- Ten Reasons why Ahmadi Muslims Will always love Pakistan
1. A vast majority of Ahmadis Muslims living across the world are still Pakistani in origin. Loving your homeland is a part of Ahmadiyya Muslim faith. Imam of Ahmadiyya Muslims continues to ask the community to pray and fast especially for their homeland
2. With the clearest version of Pluralistic, secular Islam, Ahmadiyya Muslims were the only organized Muslim Reform Movement in the Indian sub-continent which supported, helped to articulate and provided an independent narrative for Pakistan’s foundation, free of the right leaning, pan Islamic Deo-band Movement, and the left leaning, liberal Aligarh Movement. Inspired by the true significance of Metha-qe-Madina and its full understanding, Ahmadi Muslims of Pakistani origin defend Pakistan globally with ease and clear understanding.
3. Pakistan, gave identity and in return got adequately rewarded to be recognized as the birth place of two of the greatest Muslims Stalwarts of 20th Century, namely Sir Zafarullah Khan and Professor Abdus Salam.
4. Jinnah view of Islam, secular, pluralistic, was deeply influenced by Ahmadiyya Movement. There is a lot of historical evidence to support this. Sir Zafarullah Khan, practically remained the right hand man for Jinnah (who called him his son), possibly the one who drafted the 1940 Lahore Resolution. Allama Iqbal joined Ahmadiyya Movement in early 1900s and left only in 1930s due to differences on political leadership.
5. Pakistan is home to 190 million Muslims, one of the largest Muslim Nation in the World is also, and still, home to Permanent Head Quarters of Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement in the town of Rabwah founded at the time of independence. A large part of the global Ahmadiyya Muslim missionary work is still managed from this Town, another honour for Pakistan.
6. Despite persecution that originated in 1953 and continued to become harsher and intolerable Pakistan still remains home to millions of Ahmadi Muslims. Despite the incompetent, corrupt and hypocritical religious and political leadership, these Ahmadi Muslim continue to find food, shelter, clothing and where possible educational opportunities in Pakistan.
7. Pakistani people remain the most resilient, talented and industrious people you find anywhere. They excel everywhere. Those who sometimes fail to make a mark in the country, shine as soon as outside the country where they can compete. They are respected and liked as good professionals globally.
8. Pakistan is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Gifted with land, deserts, highest mountain peaks, ski resorts and rivers, it has breath taking beauty that can capture anyone’s heart even on one visit. The culture and traditions are rich with hospitality, friendliness and warmth and folk culture, clothes and languages are diverse. Allah has granted huge amount of natural resource wealth to the country.
9. Pakistan remains in our hearts, in our conversations, in our worries and in our prayers no matter where Ahmadiyya Muslims of Pakistani origin are and where they have we made their adopted homes. The flame of love that was lit in our hearts on our birth in this country can, and will never extinguish.
10. Ahmadiyya Muslims of Pakistani origin, despite having been persecuted and targeted over the period of its independence, are ultimate optimists. This springs from their firm faith in Allah the Almighty, who has promised to all persecuted in the way of Truth, a final victory, both spiritual and physical. Pakistan will remain an important focus of that final victory which will be won by Prayers and Love for All.
Nation of BARBARIANS period: really?
Here is a list of dintinguished Pakistani Ahmadi Muslims (Barbarians from your perspective?) for your kind attention
Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad: Khalifa-Tul-Masih Sani- Head of the World Wide Ahmadiyya Muslims- Born in India-Migrated to Pakistan
Hazrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad:Khalifa-Tul-Masih III- Head of the World Wide Ahmadiyya Muslims- Born in India-Migrated to Pakistan
Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad: Khalifa-Tul-Masih IV- Head of the World Wide Ahmadiyya Muslims- Born in India-Migrated to Pakistan
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad: Khalifa-Tul-Masih V- Head of the World Wide Ahmadiyya Muslims-
Chaudry Sir Zafar Ullah Khan: Chief Jutice of International Court of Justice –
Mohammad Abdus Salam: The only Muslim Nobel Laureate in Science
Would you like to review your comment? or explain?
jazakallah
In bad taste..the anchor is.
Dear Brother Azimul Haq:
Salam alaikum (peace be on you)
This Nation of Barbarians includes your Persecuted Pakistani Ahmadiyya Muslims brothers.
If anybody has to take side with Pakistan and at the same time wishes to get leverage from Muslims of other nations on ground of religion should do what a Muslim should do. First stop all terrorist attacks against India, Stop these forced violence at the border. Otherwise everything looks so meaningless.
If people have understanding then they should understand that bringing religion of Islam to seek leverage is the most unwise thing to do. Having same religion does not makes us obliged to support a rogue nation. Let me have that leverage first then and let me hope that Pakistanis will stop financing or giving moral support for Jihadists against India. Peace be with you.
Peace
Nothing to do with leveraging religion here. A blanket statemnet of calling a Nation “Barbarians” is devoid of absolute justice that is a Qur’anic injunction. Justice demands that one understands that there are good people everywhere and acts of a minority of people do not represent the character of a whole nation. Should we call Indians barbarians because of what 5 people did on that bus in Delhi? Or should we call all Indians Rapists because Delhi is internationally known as the Rape Capital of the world? No we won’t. It is against justice to let a small number of people define the nation. What I meant by refering to Ahmadiyya Muslims as your brothers in faith is for you to see the contradiction and unfairness that is inherent in your statement of calling a whole nation barbarians. Because you should know in your heart that we as Ahmadi Muslims as a part of Pakistani nation cannot be labelled barbarians and I am sure many others will say that too. The Holy Prophet came from among the uncivilzed and people with barbaric attitudes. If we extend your logic in making a blanket statement he would also be labelled the same (God Forbid).
Good judgement calls for clear headed and rational thinking. I will post a link on higly interesting and relevant article on the inclinations and direction of Indian media. We all take what comes of media with a big pinch of salt. They are in the business of making money and mad for ratings. This is also true for Pakistani media and for that matter globally. We as Pakistanis do remain open and are very critical of what is going in our country. The same is not true for Indians. I am quite sure that you have a serious plethora of problems in India which you choose not to highlight (which you must engage in putting right) and give up this Pakistan centric view of India. I am glad that at least one of our editors from India took the courage to post all the news about that horrible rape that happened in Delhi.
I would be very interested if instead of focusing on Pakistan, you tell us more about how Sachar Report 2006 about the conditions of Muslims in India is being recieved and acted upon by Hindu Majority Government. Here is an excerpt from 3 March 2012 NY times for your attention
“For decades, the issue of affirmative action for Muslims has been a politically fractious one in India. Many opponents, including right-wing Hindu groups, have long argued that affirmative action policies based on religion violate India’s Constitution and run counter to the country’s secular identity. Quotas, they said, should be strictly reserved for groups that have suffered centuries of caste-based discrimination.
But these arguments have been steadily countered by an undeniable and worrisome byproduct of India’s democratic development: Muslims, as a group, have fallen badly behind, in education, employment and economic status, partly because of persistent discrimination in a Hindu-majority nation. Muslims are more likely to live in villages without schools or medical facilities, a landmark government report found in 2006, and less likely to qualify for bank loans”Are Indian Muslims struggling to get into Scheduled caste reservation? Why? The Indian political system remains highly caste based? Is this correct?
“Civil society groups of Dalit Muslims and Dalit Christians protested in New Delhi on Thursday demanding that the “discriminatory” 1950 Presidential Order be amended. The Order held that only Dalit who professed Hindu religion could be treated as Scheduled Caste (SC)”. http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/dalit-muslims-christians-demand-scheduled-caste-status/article4101026.ece
What has Pakistan got to do with the current pathetic state of Muslims in India? Why dont you do something about that? Please let us know more about these issues.
My loyalty to Pakistan demands that I highlight what is going wrong in the country. In fact some readers of my posts label me as indulging in Pakistan bashing and I always say that my patriotism compels me to point out the mistakes we are making as a nation and keep us alert. I do concede that until mid 1980’s until Pakistani Ahmadi Muslims were allowed to vote and exert some political pressure on the decision making in the country we could do what you ask us to do and that is to stop and reverse the militancy problem that is eating the country, but since mid 1980’s we have been completey made powerless by the state denying us the right to vote by a separate electorate. So no matter how much we desire to put things right in the country practically we cannot do it as citizens.
Here is what I think at the bottom of this. Just as a Pakistani Ahmadi Muslim (minority) I have to sometimes overdo my loyalty bit for Pakistan, I believe as an Indian Muslim (minority) you have to overdo your bit about being patriotic to India by appearing to do more than normal Pakistan bashing.
Remember, just like invoking Islam by Pakistani Muslims especially the Islamist types, who were against Pakistan anyway, and raising issues about Indian Muslims tends to create difficulties for Indian Muslims, similarly, your zeal to bash Pakistan (justified as it may be in your view) especially in this forum, may also have implications for Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan.
So here is my solution. Please do not be so Pakistan centric about Indian Problems. We are not Indian centric about our problems. Please be open minded enought to raise serious problems that you as an Indian citizen must counter and work to resolve in your own country and keep us posted on that. We are taking care of our side and you will not find any lack of criticism of Pakistan from our side. Good if you can balance your posts with articles which are more about India and sometimes also critical of it. It is healthy and must be done. Many thanks and Jazakallah for being patient. I look forward to our continued engagement on this issue. We are just starting.
Response to A nation of Barbarians period:
MOre Questions for Brother Azim:
Can you explain if this should qualify Indians as Barbarians?
Insurgents in Jharkhand Plant Bombs Inside Bodies: Why is insurgency going on in Jharkand and what are Indian Muslims doing about it?http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/insurgents-in-jharkhand-plant-bombs-inside-dead-bodies/
Female Infanticide – The NATIONAL SHAME of India: What are Indian Muslims doing about this? Is this barbaric?
Can you tell us more about this?
http://www.sharda.ac.in/blog/female-infanticide-the-national-shame-of-india/
Or this? Missing: 50 million Indian girls: what happened? are Indians barbaric enough to commit to killing girls in the mothers womb?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/24/opinion/24iht-edswami.html
ANd here is by Amartya Sen my favorite writer: Problems with Indian Media
There is, in fact, a substantial part of the Indian population — a minority but still very large in absolute numbers — for whom India’s economic growth is working well, along with those who were already comparatively privileged. An exaggerated concentration on their lives, which the Indian media tend typically to display, gives an unreal picture of the rosiness of what is happening to Indians in general. There tends to be fulsome coverage in the news media of the lifestyles of the fortunate, and little notice of the concerns of the less fortunate. To refer to three of many unfortunate facts (the list can be quite long): (1) India has the highest percentage of undernourished children in the entire world, measured in terms of the standard criteria; (2) India spends a far lower percentage of its GNP than China on government-provided health care and has a much lower life expectancy; and (3) India’s average rank among South Asian countries — India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Bhutan — in the standard social indicators, varying from life expectancy and immunisation to infant mortality and girls’ schooling, has dropped over the last twenty years from being second-best to second-worst (even as India has surged ahead in terms of GNP per capita).
The problem here does not, of course, originate in the media, for it is social division that feeds this bias in coverage. But the media can play a more constructive part in keeping the reality of India persistently in the view of the public. The bias in coverage, even though it is by no means unpleasant to the reader, contributes quite heavily to the political apathy about the urgency of remedying the extreme deprivation of the Indian underprivileged. Since the fortunate group includes not only business leaders and the professional classes, but also the bulk of the country’s intellectuals, the story of unusual national advancement gets, directly or indirectly, much aired — making an alleged reality out of what is at best a very partial story.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article2781128.ece
If the first problem I referred to, that of accuracy, is one of improving the performance of the news media through better quality control, the second, transcending class bias, concerns the media’s role in reporting and discussing the problems of the country in a balanced way. The media can greatly help in the functioning of Indian democracy and the search for a better route to progress including all the people — and not just the more fortunate part of Indian society. What is central to the functioning of the news media in Indian democracy is the combination of accuracy with the avoidance of bias. The two problems, thus, complement each other.
And Justice Kadju on Indian Media:
There are three major defects in the Indian media which I would like to highlight. 1. The media often diverts the attention of the people from the real issues to non issues. The real issues in India are socio-economic, the terrible poverty in which 80% of our people are living, the massive unemployment, the price rise, lack of medical care, education, and backward social practices like honour killing and caste oppression and religious fundamentalism etc. Instead of devoting most of its coverage to these issues the media focuses on non issues like film stars and their lives, fashion parades, pop music, disco dancing, astrology, cricket, reality shows, etc.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/justice-markandey-katju-on-the-role-of-media-in-india/article2600319.ece
Hope this throws enough light on what rough waters we are treading on when we give sweeping statements like yours.
More later
wassalam
Human nature is such that awful things are happening all over the world. Remember the Austrian father who enslaved his own daugher and kept her hidden away in the basement of his house for twenty years (or so) and fathered several children with her? But actually this is not The Muslim Times main interest. Yes, we want to show all kind of News so that our readers are informed what is going on in the world. Our intention however is positive, we hope that by showing all kind of News that the readers will judge for him/herself that the world needs the Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya. Allah – in his infinite mercy – has given us the Prophet Mohammad (peace be on him) as our guide. After his death He did not forsake us, but continued his guidance, lastly with the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi and then continued by Khilafat. Let us remember and keep this our main aim always in mind.
Just want to say this for the first and last time if you are unaware of diversity of Ahmadiyya. There are Ahmadis who serve in the Indian armed forces too. What if (God forbid) these beheaded soldiers been Ahmadi Muslim? What if the head less body been that of Ahmadi? May be it is the secular nature of our society that we feel grief not only if it’s ‘Me’ but we feel for everyone. Or should i say that it is Islam which teaches compassion for all?
Although i don’t but there are many of my age group and elders too who are serving and have served.
Few things i want to understand. Although i don’t give it a damn of it.
Muslim only if you are Arab? I don’t think so.
Are Ahmadis of India at the mercy of Pakistanis and need permission from Pakistanis before we could say something? I don’t think so. To the contrary, we have full GOD given right to side with our nation and choose to have our own opinion.
Are those who beheade not barbarians? What about similar beheadings by Taliban of Pakistani soldiers?
Also, i wish to understand from Muslims of Pakistani origin(preferably excluding wahabis/takfiris) who are third generation immigrants living in US about their perception of the state of Pakistan.
As you correctly point out Taliban in Pakistan have done the same thing to Pakistani soldiers. I did not yet meet anyone on the pages of The Muslim Times who thought beheadings a good idea, whether the victims were Indian or Pakistani. I personally find it great to see that Pakistani Ahmadis defend Pakistan and Indian Ahmadis defend India and American Ahmadis defend America, but, yes, let us be diplomatic and defend our country without accusing another. I think we have a lot of views of third generation Ahmadis from Pakistan about their (mixed) feelings about their country of origin. Again, personally I find it interesting and generally speaking the comments in The Muslim Times are of high standard and we can learn a lot from all our readers. Just, please, everyone: let’s remain polite and diplomatic. It would be really a shame if we had to ‘censor’ comments. Whenever possible I try not to censor them, so that we get ‘the real feel’ of the writers. Thanks for understanding.
So many hate filled comments at me. But not a single one expressing remorse at the beheadings. Silence is acceptance, should i take it that Pakistanis are happy at this beheading and adament to defend it?
Come on, Haque Sahib. No one is ‘happy’ about such abhorrent acts, least of all the usual readers of The Muslim Times, whether Pakistani or not! Some humans are absolutely terrible and crazy acts happen all over the world, of course we abhore it. The main point is how do we react? Pay back with the same coin? Then we are on the same level. Or react dignified and mature? Surely we do not want another useless war due to an act of an individual.
Salam alaikum to all brothers engaged in this discussion. Let us move to a closure.
First let me make it clear that irrespective of your nationality, language or Religion, we at TMT recognize and respect everyone’s right to state and say what they want to say.
Second, no one here hates anyone or wants to target anyone with hateful comments.
Third, absolute justice demands that we refrain from making broad and sweeping general statements condemning nations and people and without full knowledge of facts. This can provoke hatred and is not what we as Ahmadiyya Muslims are here for.
Fourth We as nationals of different countries, and or religions absolutely and unconidtionally condemn any inhuman or barbaric acts committed by anyone in the world. The head of Ahmadiyya Community has said this several times in his international addresses and we all follow that with our hearts. It does not help to insinuate that some people in this forum can even think of condoning such acts as beheadings.
Fifth as Nation States, we all have serious problems and both politicians and media hype up these problems to create a market of hate and sensationalism around us. They do it to sell themselves. TMT is not in the business of selling. We call a spade a spade and without fear or favor to seek and support truth, even it is against ourselves, our nations and our people.
Sixth good discussion is a learning experience for all of us. Indecent language and hate filled statements must not be used because they kill the very purpose of such a forum as TMT.
Seventh In principle, it is good to leave the criticism of a country to its own people. If posts are aimed at another country and another people they can give rise to misunderstandings. When a post is really needed that has implications of going against a country, it is good to do thorough research from different sources impartially before jumping to conclusions and issuing sweeping statements.Jazakallah