The Great Resurrection Debate – William Lane Craig vs. John Shelby Spong
If we listen to both speakers with respect and due diligence, we will find that resuscitation of Jesus, as understood by the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, is a more likely explanation of what the disciples experienced, rather than a resurrection.
Additional Reading
Jesus did not die on the cross!
Gospel story of Jesus’ resurrection a source of deep rifts in Christian religion
Dan Barker’s Challenge to Every Christian about Resurrection and Ascension
If Jesus did not die upon the cross: A study in evidence
The Last Supper: A Fiction Opposing the Account of Garden of Gethsemane
The Pope Benedict’s account of resurrection and the hearsay rule!
Did Jesus rise in a physical body or a spiritual one?
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross
Pastors Ordained by God to Demystify Christianity
Categories: Catholicism, CHRISTIANITY, Debate, Easter, Original Sin, Religion, Video
Sorry for the late reply Ghulam. Life’s very busy over here.
And no i do not have a copy of the Quran. But l have read parts of it.
To understand my position …. i come from what you would call a converted muslim family. I am part afghani part english. My grandfather was a Iman..my father regurly attended the meetings as a child. But no longer….. i could go further into the reasons why but that would be unfair to this site.
My level would be what i have read and what my father has passed down to me.
thanks Rob
That is all very good. Thanks for informing. Our mission is to read and understand the Bible and the Quran. It is for our own benefit and salvation. We can discuss things and present our findings and not hide anything that we know to be false or true.
It is upto the other person to believe or not believe. Many Christians are converting to Islam and many Muslims are converting to Christianity. I know that and I have seen that many Muslims are converting to church teachings. They have their own reasons.
While the majority non-Ahmadi Muslims do not allow any Muslim to change faith and declare that person to be apostate, liable to be killed, Ahmadi Muslims do not believe that.
Ahmadi Muslims believe that there is no compulsion in the matters of faith. Anything we believe, God Almighty will take account from us. Nobody else is allowed to take account of our beliefs.
I will come back with something about the teachings of Luke that you had presented. Thank you.
Instead of coming back with Luke, I am presenting something from the Quran. It is about John the Baptist and his father and later may be something about Mary (the Mother) and Jesus a.s.
——————————-
For Robert Ward.
[19:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[19:2] Kaf Ha Ya ‘Ain Sad.
[19:3] This is an account of the mercy of thy Lord shown to His servant, Zachariah.
[19:4] When he quietly called upon his Lord, a secret calling,
[19:5] He said, ‘My Lord, my bones have indeed waxed feeble in me, and the head glistens with hoariness, but never, my Lord, have I been unblessed in my prayer to Thee.
[19:6] ‘And I fear my relations after me, and my wife is barren. Grant me, therefore, a successor from Thyself,
[19:7] ‘That he may be heir to me and to the House of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, well-pleasing to Thee.’
[19:8] ‘O Zachariah, We give thee glad tidings of a son whose name shall be Yahya‡. We have not made any one before him of that name.’
[19:9] He said, ‘My Lord, how shall I have a son when my wife is barren and I have reached the extreme limit of old age?’
[19:10] He said, ‘So it is.’ But thy Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and indeed I created thee before, when thou wast nothing.’
[19:11] He said, ‘My Lord, appoint for me a token (a sign).’God said, ‘Thy token is that thou shalt not speak to anyone for three full days and nights.’ [That means just do not deliver sermons or make any meaningful speech.]
[19:12] Then he came forth unto his people from the chamber and asked them by signs to glorify God in the morning and in the evening.
[19:13] ‘O Yahya, hold fast the Book.’ And We gave him wisdom while yet a child,
[19:14] And tenderness of heart from Ourself, and purity. And he was pious
[19:15] And dutiful toward his parents. And he was not haughty and rebellious.
[19:16] And peace was on him the day he was born, and the day he died, and peace there will be on him the day he will be raised up to life again.
[19:17] And relate the story of Mary in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east, [She went away from home to a synagogue towards east where her mother left her to serve in the temple]
[19:18] And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man. [there after she had no contact with her family for long time. Then she had a vision. A perfect, handsome man appeared to her. That was an angel.]
[19:19] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’ [Mary was so pious that she could not tolerate a handsome man even in her dream. She sought refuge with Allah and requested that man to do the same.]
[19:20] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’ [ The angel said that he was only a messenger from her Lord (Allah) and he had come to give Mary the good news of a grown up, pious son.]
[19:21] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?’ [Mary said that she was not married and had no hope of marriage and she was not a spoiled lady.]
[19:22] He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a (memorable) Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’[The angel said it will happen like that (in time) and that the matter was decreed (well decided) and that the son will be a sign for the people and a mercy from Allah..]
[19:23] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place. [sometime after, say long time after, Mary conceived him and she went on a long journey while pregnant.]
[19:24] And the pains of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, ‘O! would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten!’ [The pains of child birth were too much. Quite unbearable. No comfortable place was available for the family during delivery.]
———————————-
The next verses will be commented later. see below:
[19:25] Then he called her from beneath her, saying, “Grieve not. Thy Lord has placed a rivulet below thee;
[19:26] “And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will cause fresh ripe dates to fall upon thee. [mary was
[19:27] “So eat and drink, and cool thy eye. And if thou seest any (mortal) man, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to the Gracious God; I will therefore not speak this day to any human being.’”
[19:28] Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, ‘O Mary, thou hast brought forth a strange thing.
[19:29] ‘O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!’
[19:30] Then she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we talk to one who was a child in the cradle?’
[19:31] He said, ‘I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet;
[19:32] ‘And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;
[19:33] ‘And He has made me dutiful toward my mother, and He has not made me haughty and unblessed.
[19:34] ‘And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace there will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.’
[19:35] Such was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth about which they doubt.
[19:36] It does not befit the Majesty of Allah to take unto Himself a son. Holy is He. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, ‘Be!’, and it becomes.
[19:37] (Said Jesus): ‘Surely, Allah is my Lord, and your Lord. So worship Him alone; this is the right path.’
[19:38] But the parties differed among themselves; so woe to those who disbelieved (in Jesus) because of the meeting of the great day.
[19:39] How wonderful will their hearing and seeing be on that day when they will come to Us! But today the wrongdoers are in manifest error.
[19:40] And warn them of the day of grief when the matter will be decided. But now they are in a state of carelessness, so they do not believe.
—————————————————————————————
And please read verses of chapter 3 of the Quran from verse 36 onward. Use the Ahmadiyah translation please.
Ghulam
Okay i’ve read them.
Yes that’s one part where the Quran claims Jesus to be a prophet. Not sure about a babe talking as an adult though (but with God anything is possible).
But from both passages….who is Christ’s father????
thanks Rob
Robert Ward, You have asked a difficult question. First about the babe talking to people from cradle. There is no such thing in the Quran. There seems to be a mistranslation or understsnding.
The exact words of the Quran are: “He (Jesus) will speak to the people in the cradle and (the people) in the old age.)
The exact words of the Quran are: “He (Jesus) will speak to the people in the cradle and (the people) in the old age.)”
It was not Jesus in the cradle. As I told you there is no babe in the Quran, about Jesus son of Mary.
It is similar to the words that Jesus will speak to those who are young and those who are old. Similar to the words of Jesus when some people stopped children coming close to Jesus, Jesus said, “Let them come to me.”
He also said, “The kingdom of heavens is for the young…”. He addressed the children.
As a further to my above writing, the secret is to be found in the word “Yukallim un Naas”. Yukallim is from Kalaam and Kalaam means speech. It means meaningful speech, not idle talk.
Talking is different to speaking. Kalaam i.e.Speech is always meaningful. That is why we have the Kalimah which means a meaningful sentence.
So we can forget about Jesus making any speech from the cradle. He made speech when he was grown up and started his ministry after the age of 30..