Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times
Epigraph: And their (Jews of Jerusalem) saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty. (Al Quran 4:158)
Dan Barker (born June 25, 1949) is a prominent American atheist activist who served as a Christian preacher and musician for 19 years but left Christianity in 1984
Dan Barker (born June 25, 1949) is a prominent American atheist activist who served as a Christian preacher and musician for 19 years but left Christianity in 1984.
Barker, along with his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor, is the current co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.[1] He has written numerous articles forFreethought Today, an American freethought newspaper. He is the author of several books including Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist.
Read his biography further in Wikipedia.
He issues a simple challenge to all of us, Christian or not, in his book, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist:
The conditions of the challenge are simple and reasonable. In each of the Gospels, begin at Easter morning and read to the end of the book: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21. Also read Acts 1:3-12 and Paul’s version of the story in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8. These 165 verses can be read in a few moments. Then, without omitting a single detail from these separate accounts, write a simple, chronological narrative of the events between the resurrection and the ascension: what happened first, second, and so on; who said what, when; and where these things happened.
Since the gospels do not always give precise times of day, it is permissible to make educated guesses. The narrative does not have to pretend to present a perfect picture-it only needs to give at least one plausible account of all of the facts. Additional explanation of the narrative may be set apart in parentheses. The important condition to the challenge, however, is that not one single biblical detail be omitted. Fair enough?
I have tried this challenge myself. I failed. An Assembly of God minister whom I was debating a couple of years ago on a Florida radio show loudly proclaimed over the air that he would send me the narrative in a few days. I am still waiting. After my debate at the University of Wisconsin, ‘Jesus of Nazareth: Messiah or Myth,’ a Lutheran graduate student told me he accepted the challenge and would be contacting me in about a week. I have never heard from him. Both of these people, and others, agreed that the request was reasonable and crucial. May be they are slow readers.[1]
If the reader goes through this exercise suggested by Dan Barker and spends a few minutes of his or her precious time, he or she will realize that the conventional Easter or resurrection story is not reliable and does not hold water.
Sir Francis Bacon, who has remained extremely influential through his works, especially as philosophical advocate and practitioner of the scientific method during the scientific revolution, once advised, “Read not to contradict … but to weigh and consider.” In that spirit keep reading actively.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, so said Thomas Paine, one of the Founding Fathers of USA. Resurrection is an extraordinary claim, never witnessed by any of the seven billion inhabitants of our planet earth.
Resuscitation on the other hand is a daily occurrence in every state of the art hospital, every where and advanced countries even teach laymen, as to how to resuscitate someone, who may be in imminent danger of dying, called basic life support (BLS).
Tomb of Jesus in, Srinagar, Kashmir
If I say Jesus, may peace be on him, died of natural causes, it would appear strange to many ears, even though when the same is said about billions of other humans, it seems but obvious, and is taken for granted.
Human memory leads to the illusion-of-truth effect, meaning that we are more likely to rate those statements true that we are familiar with, regardless of their veracity. As such familiarity impairs judgment and prevents people from noticing let alone accepting the obvious limitations in their views.
Familiar seems true and unfamiliar, however logical and rational, seems fictional.
With this prelude I invite you, to a 53 minute documentary, produced by the government of India showing how Jesus came to India to teach Dharma or religion. This video has been the most popular in our video section:
Jesus did not die on the cross
If Jesus did not die upon the cross: A study in evidence
Did Jesus rise in a physical body or a spiritual one?
65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross
Reference
1. Dan Barker. Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist. Freedom from religion Foundation, Inc. Madison, WI, USA. Pages 178-179.
Categories: CHRISTIANITY, Easter, Highlight
No proof to indicate that jesus died on the cross. Look at the so called tomb what was the need to roll the stone away if he was not in physical form of human body. If he had resurrected in spirit there was no need to his disciples to roll the stone away.
2 if he had resurrected wat was the need for him to ask food luke 24:36-44
Conclusion sing dance but kno for sure jesus died natural death burried in india Kashimir.
Meeting
I would like to hold a meeting and invite all those interested people who hold the above views about Jesus the Son of God. Perhaps it would be best if we meet in a telephone box. Tea and biscuits will be provided.
We will have a raffle for a basket of groceries so bring some spare cash.
Signed Fred
Great Fred. Good idea to meet up but the point here its not whether Jesus is actually son of God or not. At this point in time, we are after the truth, did Jesus whether son of God or sheep, did he actually die on the cross, as claimed by millions of innocent people? No, he didn’t do that. Do you still want that we meet up?
A man cannot be a rock and an apple at the same time. Men, rocks and apples are different things.
If Jesus was son of man, as he often calls himself in the Gospels, he cannot be God. Plain and simple.
Yes Toby I would like to still meet in a telephone box because I’ve already bought the tea and biscuits. Remember this where and whenever 2 or 3 people meet in Jesus’ name there he is in the midst. Jesus died, rose and transcends this earth and is with His father in Heaven. We have to get on with his work. Thanx to the Holy Spirit he enlivens us to continue the work of Jesus.
I’m in Dubai waiting Toby. Smile from Mike
Actually, Jesus was hanged to death by the Sanhedrin after he returned to Jerusalem, which followed his failed crucifixion. Check out Acts 5:30 and also “The Hanging Death of Jesus Christ . . .” by Richard Sutherland, J.D.
Alhamdulillah
There is no evidence to prove he had not died and resurrected, but every word tells He died and rose again and ascended to heaven.
Dear Gajendra Andrew, I have moved your comment to this post as the other thread, 65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross, is closed for comments.
YES,THERE CAN THOUSAND REASONS WHY JESUS DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS,HE IS BELIEVED N FOLLOWED THAN ANY RELIGIOUS FIGURE.NO ONE WILL CHANGE HIS FAITH BY CARNAL ARGUEMENT.CHRISTIANITY IS FAITH N BELIEF IN D SUPERNATURAL.IT IS TOO LATE FOR ANY ARGUEMENT.IT IS AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY.REPENT OF YOUR SINS N BE BORN AGAIN.JESUS NO CHALLENGER.
So you don’t want reason #76?
The Romans were meticulous record keepers, so it is highly unlikely that such a showpiece trial and subsequent execution would go un-recorded, yet there is not a scrap of evidence for any of it; the most contemporary writings were written at least two generations after the suposed crucifixion. All you are doing is using the Bible to confirm what is said in….the Bible.
A bit circular, no?
How would the above article/discussion fare if the United Nations were to outlaw criticizing prophets of religions? (see: ‘Criminalize abuse of Prophet’; Posted by Rafiq A. Tschannen)
To Christians who believe that Jesus was God’s Son, died on the cross in a substitutionary death as foretold by God’s prophets since the beginning of time, and rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven where He returned to the throne of Heaven as part of God’s spirit, awaiting the end times? Could those many sincere believers be offended if someone suggested their Prophet was false and they were fools for believing what they believe the Bible says as God’s word?
From Charley: Could those many sincere believers be offended if someone suggested their Prophet was false and they were fools for believing what they believe the Bible says as God’s word?
————————————
I cannot understand whether charley is in favor of death on the cross or against it.
First of all, the Christians do not believe that Jesus was a prophet of God. The Muslims do not say that he was false prophet. So, I hope it is alright.
Also there should be no harm in peaceful discussion and to go by the original books of every faith. But there is no original with the Church. So, we have to do with whatever is available, i.e. The Holy BibleNT.
Christians should bring forward their arguments (good points) and Muslims will also bring good points of their faith.
Debate is not useful. Christians should present good points of their faith from reliable sources.
the comments on number 19 in, 65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross have no ground since in the bible we see many places where people were buried in these kind of tombs e.g. John 11:38 &2 kings 13:20-21 to name a few if you challenge this faith know the bible and understand it
Read more: http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/04/religion/christianity/65-reasons-to-believe-jesus-did-not-die-on-the-cross
Are we still grinding away and chewing on the bones of this 65 reasons to believe in this exercise of navel gazing.
The three in one reason is Jesus is the Son of God He was sent on a mission by surprising everyone and being born as a baby where he grew in strength and wisdom to understand his role. He died and rose and ascended into heaven where he sits at the right hand of God. If you can’t get your head around that then carry on with your digging over the bones and contemplating your navel because simply put my reason to live and my reason to die is bound up with the life of Jesus.
Reason with our fallible minds and go into contortions if you will. Try and extrapolate some reason for my stubbornness and show me up to be deluded and misguided and missing one leg to hop around on. Do what you will what you need is something solid to bounce off and formulate your own ideas and make up your own wobbly constructs. The fact is you have it. Jesus is the same yesterday and tomorrow. You have your rock to chip at as cling to your security blankets. Jesus Died rose and lives and the Holy Spirit inspires and infuses and gives us a new creation.
You don’t need 65 reasons you only need 1 reason. The handiwork of God is that He keeps things simple. It is only man who constructs towers of Babel and then in the confusion that ensues in trying to climb to the top man finds he can’t communicate one to another.
The Look Alike of Jesus:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DL0aqy8zzM
The following parts to these short series will be included and updated in this note and I pray and hope that all of you share it with all you can and that God Almighty removes the burdens of confusion and doubt and leaves your hearts open to the truth.
There has been a great debate between Christians and Muslims since God revealed the Noble Qur’an to Prophet Muhammad, concerning the crucifixion of Jesus. In the Holy —Qur’an, in chapter 4 verses 157-158: “They said (in boast), ‘We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
For Muslims, we believe in the Noble Qur’an and what was revealed, however many Christians reject it and even those who may consider talking with you concerning it, perhaps will use a verse from the Qur’an as well by saying: “Let the people of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed theirin.” Surah 5:47
Regarding commandments, laws, teachings… those who truly follow the way and teachings of Jesus and those who follow the ways of the Torah before, must understand that God revealed in His last Prophet, Prophet Muhammad; the final and last message of the Holy Books, the Noble Qur’an. We are all People of the Book and brothers of one another. And God revealed clearly that Jesus was not crucified, that they have no knowledge concerning the matter, they only follow conjecture and God even repeats this by saying, “For a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself…”
The Look Alike of Jesus series will be a three part series, confirming and clarifying that it was in fact not Jesus who bore the torment of the crucifixion, that God did accept his prayer and remove the cup from him (i.e crucifixion) and raised him the night in the garden and sent one to take upon the image of Jesus, before the soldiers of the Jews came to arrest him. While exploring the verses, it becomes clear that the one after the arrest in no way could be Jesus and that in fact they are two different people, on two entirely different stances. Part 2 will be out soon God-willing and in some time, the conclusion with part 3. This series is important for both Christians and Muslims and in there is clarification concerning the matter and glad tidings.
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This is really weak reasoning, e.g., nos. 17 and 18. This whole article — not to mention Zia Shah’s and Namelee’s comments betray a very deep ignorance of Christian theology. Learn that, answer that, and then — and only then — go forward with an article like this. Boy, if I was worried about an attack on my faith as a Catholic Christian, just reading this article would make me feel much more secure. Sorry. Not trying to be rude. Just noting you have not proved your case. Quite the opposite, for if this is the best you can do, it just proves to me yet again that Islam, while it has some truth, is ultimately false. Again, not trying to be rude. Just stating the obvious, IMHO. Please don’t kill me or threaten to do so for this.
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Brian your self confidence is unparalleled and unwarranted. Period!
OK, I’ll give you a for instance, Nos. 17 & 18.
There is a great book called “A Doctor Looks at Calvary: The Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ As Described by a Surgeon [M.D. Pierre Barbet]. It goes into great, blow-by-blow detail about the death of Christ on the cross.
I don’t have access to the full book, but with what I can see from what is available online, the author writes, “In my first autopsies I noticed that the pericardium always contained a quantity of serum (hydropericardium) sufficient for one to see it flowing on the incision of the [parietal?] layer. In some cases it was most abundant.
I, therefore, took my syringe once again, but I pushed the needle very slowly, drawing into the syringe the whole time. I was thus able to feel the resistance of the fibrous pericardium, and as soon as I had perforated it, I drew out a considerable quantity of serum. Then, as the needed proceeded on its way. I drew out some blood from the right … lesser amount of pericardial fluid is also flowing.
The water was then pericardial fluid. And one may imagine that after an exceptionally painful death-agony, as was that of the Saviour, this hydropericardium would have been particularly abundant, so much so that St. John was was an eye-witness, was able to see both blood and …” And that’s all I can see. But, again, the blood and water obviously were not a “great sign of life.”
We can see the same thing with this quote from a different source: “Prior to death, the sustained rapid heartbeat caused by hypovolemic shock also causes fluid to gather in the sack around the heart and around the lungs. This gathering of fluid in the membrane around the heart is called pericardial effusion, and the fluid gathering around the lungs is called pleural effusion. This explains why, after Jesus died and a Roman soldier thrust a spear through Jesus’ side (probably His right side, piercing both the lungs and the heart), blood and water came from His side just as John recorded in his Gospel (John 19:34).”
Another source that also answers the contention about Pilate being surprised by the death of Christ, writes, “Some of the skepticism in accepting John’s description has arisen from the difficulty in explaining, with medical accuracy, the flow of both blood and water. Part of this difficulty has been based on the assumption that the blood appeared first, then the water. However, in the ancient Greek, the order of words generally denoted prominence and not necessarily a time sequence.37 Therefore, it seems likely that John was emphasizing the prominence of blood rather than its appearance preceding the water.
Therefore, the water probably represented serous pleural and pericardial fluid, 5-7, 11 and would have preceded the flow of blood and been smaller in volume than the blood. Perhaps in the setting of hypovolemia and impending acute heart failure, pleural and pericardial effusions may have developed and would have added to the volume of apparent water.5, 11 The blood, in contrast, may have originated from the right atrium or the right ventricle (Fig. 7) or perhaps from a hemoperieardium.5, 7, 11
Jesus’ death after only three to six hours on the cross surprised even Pontius Pilate. The fact that Jesus cried out in a loud voice and then bowed his head and died suggests the possibility of a catastrophic terminal event. One popular explanation has been that Jesus died of cardiac rupture. In the setting of the scourging and crucifixions with associated hypovolemia, hyperemia, and perhaps an altered coagulable state, friable non-infective thrombotic vegetations could have formed on the aortic or mitral valve. These then could have dislodged and embolized into the coronary circulation and thereby produced an acute transmural myocardial infarction. Thrombotic valvular vegetations have been reported to develop under analogous acute traumatic conditions.39 Rupture of the left Ventricular free wall may occur, though uncommonly, in the first few hours following infarction.40
However, another explanation may be more likely. Jesus’ death may have been hastened simply by his state of exhaustion and by the severity of the Scourging, with its resultant blood loss and preshock state.7 The fact that he could not carry his patibulum supports this interpretation. The actual cause of Jesus’ death, like that of other crucified victims, may have been multifactorial and related primarily to hypovolemie shock, exhaustion asphyxia, and perhaps acute heart failure2, 3, 5-7, 10, 11 A fatal cardiac arrhythmia may have accounted for the apparent catastrophic terminal event.
Thus, it remains unsettled whether Jesus died of cardiac rupture or of cardiorespiratory failure. However, the important feature may be not how he died but rather whether he died. Clearly, the weight of historical and medical evidence indicates that Jesus was dead before the wound to his side was inflicted and supports the traditional view that the spear, thrust between his right ribs, probably perforated not only the right lung but also the pericardium and heart and thereby ensured his death (Fig 7). Accordingly, interpretations based on the assumption that Jesus did not die on the cross appear to be at odds with modern medical knowledge.”
Certainly, goes against your contention that the blood and water were “a great sign of life.”
Also, Romans typically scourged someone 39 times. Christian mystics over the centuries, however, is that the Romans scourged Christ up to 150 times and on both sides. This would have resulted in an incredible loss of blood. This seems to back up what doctors have written above.
My dear Brian extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs.
You claim a man to be a God at the same time, as if an apple can be a rock and a mango at the same time. Then you propose that for all the short comings and murders that John committed, James was sent to jail for 150 years and this was an act of supreme love, justice and wisdom. Need I go any further with your preposterous claims.
Then you have the audacity to present some contradictory statements about scourging from the four canonical Gospels. If you read my comments ,65 Reasons to Believe Jesus Did Not Die on the Cross, I have shown that the Gospels do not give a coherent story on the issue of scourging, just like the four Gospels give a differing account, about all details of the last week of Jesus, may peace be on him, in Jerusalem.
You yourself quote that even Pontius Pilate was surprised by the report of Jesus’ dying. He was the contemporary expert on crucifixion. Jesus was not supposed to die so soon.
My dear Brian your evidence is too flimsy to base a religion on it. Case dismissed!
MY PEOPLE PERISH FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE
Sometimes to explain God’s works with human knowledge is SOMETHING but I don’t blame the writer. My only advice is next time he must take time and research more and seek God’s wisdom
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Jesus died and resurrected, he washed all my sins away and saved me for eternity. Pls give him a try by confessing him and denying the devil today.
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ityEka: Muslims are fortunate that Allah directly can forgive our sins. Allah – the creator of all – does not need an ‘intermediary’ or a ‘scape goat’ or a ‘sacrificial lamb’. Just read the first Sura of the Holy Qur’an and you will see how clear the religion of Islam is. Allhamdolillah – All praise is due to Allah!
Zia when God said “Now let us make man in our own image” who did you think he was referring to? The Angels? Mind you the angels were never in God’s image,it showed there were others sharing same images with God-The Word(Son) and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity! The Holy Spirit is what binds the other two Persons together,The Father has the Holy Spirit in Him whih is His Spirit,The Son too. If these two Persons share This Spirit it singles the Spirit out as another Person making it three Persons up there. If the Spirit is found in God the Father It is God and if It is found in God the Son it is God. There we have three Persons as God(the Son is of the Father as the Spirit is of God)there you can say we have three persons in one God creating the Trinity! No one can fully understand the Trinity,what we have is just a hicken knowledge of it until we get there and I hope to see you there. Remain Blessed in Jesus’ Name!
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Dear Brown Douglas, you are trying to prove Trinity. But where from? Is it from BibleNT? There is nothing about it in the Bible, nothing about it in Jesus teachings, nothing about it in Old Testament (The BibleOT).
Please let us not invent things in religion. It will mean that the book is weak. But present day men are stronger (wiser). Let the book speak about Trinity or three Gods or three in one and One in Three.
We Ahmadis admit all about God, presented as father (Abb or Abba) by Jesus a.s. We agree to the holy Spirit too, and we agree to Jesus whom Christians call son (or son of God).
Is Jesus called son because he called God as father? I will come to these things later. Just guide me to the invention of Trinity. Present it from the Bible please. Prove from Bible (Gospels) about Three Gods. Thank you.
Dear Joseph McGowen, You have given a link to show that it was some one else on the Cross and not Jesus himself.
I ask you “Are you a Christian?”. “Do you carry a Cross?” Please reply before you present another video. Thank you. Please answer my two questions.
Dear Zia,
I just want to ask you a question and it goes this way…..Do you believe that through the Power Of God …Jesus raised Lazarus who was dead for 4 days from death (John 11 : 17 — 44)…. If yes….then what makes you think that the same God
couldn’t raised Jesus from the dead after 3 days…knowing that the coming of Jesus Christ the Messiah and the Redeemer was prophesied by great Prophets of the Old Testament who heard directly and clearly from God Himself. Secondly…in logics and truth you dont use a bias mind when passing a Judgement…Note …the Bible is not a Book…rather its the Word Of God and a mystery which an ordinary man like you can never unfold … I pray that God Himself will reveal Himself to you and that is the way you can understand the mystery behind the Resurrection and Jesus Christ being God.
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Dear Apostle Michael O
Jesus did not raise Lazarus from the dead four days after his death. Nice try though!
Jesus, may peace be on him said that if you have faith, you will be able to move mountains.
So, please do that or cast out demons or raise the dead from the morgue, or guarantee me that every time a patient dies in my hospital, you will come and raise him or her.
Please spare us the stories from 2000 years ago, which often are contradictory and have been embellished over 20 centuries.
Let somebody shout HALLELUJAH !!!!!!!!!!
JESUS is GOD THE ALMIGHTY
And … while Jesus was dead for 3 days the world was ‘god-less’?
Greetings to all in the name of Jesus Christ.There is nothing like three Persons in one God anywhere in the Old or NewTestaments of the Holy Bible.The Almigthy God never spoke of or reveal Himself to be three Persons in one God for He is MOST CERTAINLY NOT OF SUCH:Deut 5:6-7;Deut 6:4;Ish 43:10-12;Ish 45:5-7;None of the holy Prophets of God in the Old or New Testaments taugth that.The Lord Jesus Christ did not teach that.The early Apoatles did not teach that.This strange doctrine was agreed upon and edorsed at the Nicean Council of 325 as a result of the Arian controversy centered mostly against the Deity of Jesus Christ.This error was from the church in Rome now the Roman Catholic Church.The Imperial Rome metamorphosed to Papal Rome of today and introduced many falsehoods of pagan origin.Unfortunately too many people do not have biblical revealation of The God of Isreal whom they supposedly worship.And the enemies of truth,the enemies of the cross,are using this against the truth of God’s word in the bible.However,you cannot use error to correct error.Unfortunately this is what Ghulam Sarwar,Zia Shah and too many others are doing.Zia Shah will study and study and study as well as Ghulam Sarwar only to come up with teachings that lead people into enemity with God:Rms 5:1.Many people have taken up ‘arms’ in active or passive warfare against the Most High God.The testing time of the angels is over and God have made the seperation before now:God shall NEVER recall back satan and his angels into His kingdom.Now is the testing time of man.Too many people like Ghulam Sarwar,Zia Shah and those in whose teachings or reaaonings or beliefs they follow are proving most CERTAINLY that they are messangers from the pit of hell doing the works of their father the devil:Jn 8:43-47.God is making the seperation between the sheep and the goats,the wheats and the tares now.And God’s testing standard is always His word.Zia Shah how can you say you know God and worship Him and even say peace be upon Jesus but you have continued to lie against The Holy Spirit of God?
Father, forgive Br Gabriel, for he does not know what he is saying!
Borrowing from what Jesus, may peace be on him said:
My beloved Zia Shah,you know for sure that I know what I’m saying.Or can you point out one thing I have said that is not true?Now you people read the Holy Bible,the true revealed and inspired Word of the Living God:2Pet 1:19-21;2Tim 3:16-17 and come out boldly to negate the truth of the Word of God.Was it not exactly what the devil did?Take a look at Gens 2:16-17 and Gens 3:1-11 and tell me if the way satan used the serpent and decieved the woman into sin and death is not the same way he is using you people now to explain the Word of God the way people will be seduced into spiritual fornication with devils leading them into eternal damnation in hell fire?Did he not first quote from the Word of God distorting and perverting the truth all the way?Is it not what you people are doing now by reading the Holy Bible but giving false interpretation to the Word of The Living God?He first used serpent close to man now he is using human agents to seduce the elect of God,the bride of Jesus Christ into spiritual fornication(accepting,believing practicing and sharing false doctrines and direct or indirect worship of devils or heathen gods,being in covenant and or in league with them this is spiritual fornication Num 25:1-9;Rev 2:14)Most of the books and sayings and writings and individuals you refer to are all against the truth of the Word of God.Even when you rightly pointed out errorneous teachings,remember I said in my last post that you cannot use error to correct error.Or else the last error and falsehood and sin will be worse than the first:Jerm 16:10-13;Jerm 44:15-19.They knew that Jeremiah was God’s vindicated Prophet with the pure Word of God yet they told him to his face they will NOT obey the truth…See also the story of king Belshazzar in Daniel 5:1-31.His father’s sin was pride;his own was not only pride…read Dan 5:1-31.But you cannot deceive the Word Bride Of Jesus Christ for she/he is born of a pure and incorruptible seed ,the Word of God and by The Holy Spirit:Jn 1:12-13;Jn 3:5-6;1Pt 1-18-23.He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying.Thanks.
Dear Br Gabriel, you have written: “Now you people read the Holy Bible,the true revealed and inspired Word of the Living God”.
Can you show me the real word of God from Bible please? I have read the Bible in English. Did God send that bible in English? Of course not. God used some language and sent His words care of the Holy Spirit. What was that language? and can you show me the words of God?
We are looking for the words of God, your God and our God is the same One God.
Your whole post is resting on the Word of God. So I will leave it at that to show me the word of God. I believe you do not have that. And you have slipped further by deviating from the teachings of true man of God (Jesus). You have distanced yourself from Jesus a.s. That is the main problem. We are honestly informing you. But then you start accusing us of spiritual fornication.
And you forget the physical fornication going on in your faith people all over the world. Physical fornication (beside adultery) is going on every where. But your faith people are the leaders. We must go from the physical to the spiritual. you have accused us of something falsely due to your ignorance of our teachings. The original word of God is with us in the Quran.
There are malpractices in every faith. We are trying to point out and correct our self gradually.
Another thing I remind you. You have disgraced Jesus and his disciples. Read the Quran please. There is not a word of disgrace for any one and no news that all the disciples fled the scene. Quran says they stood by Jesus a.s.
Also, your bible, has gradually, forgotten and disgraced the mother, Mary. That was bad too. There is no praise for her in the Bible. Please check. She deserves some respect, being the mother of your god.
I came a cross this website while searching for a clear answer or an interoperation about Jesus PBUH in the Quran as he was mentioned many times even more than Muhammed PBUH himself. As muslim we are not true believers if we don’t believe in the Injil( Bible) as well as the Torah. Quran didn’t cancel Jesus message to mankind. We shouldn’t question the Bible or any other faith, we should focus on ourselves, as a muslim nation we have so many problems among us needs to be addressed !!!!! From my research based on muslim scholars views, themselves are not very sure about Jesus death.
http://www.jesus-islam.org/Pages/DoestheQurandenythedeathofJesus.aspx
I only want to understand the Quran more, I will never Question any other faith. I respect all other religions including atheists. God( Allah) supports a non believer who is fare agains a believer who is unjust. Prophet Muhammed has had so much respect for christians in his time.
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/Issue/detail/Interactions-between-Prophet-Muhammad-and-Christians
Regardless of the differences about Jesus between both faith Islamic or Christian I think each one is entitled to their own view. Muslims should mind their own business!!!!!
Peace for all