This post was originally made in the Muslim Times by our Japan Editor: Mrs. Abida Rehman, in 2012. I have copied it in this post, to be able to put it in slide show again.
Original Post dated: August 2010
Italy has denied religious status to Islam. Politicians cited extremist (fundamentalist) imams, polygamy and failure to uphold women’s rights by Muslim immigrants as obstacles to recognizing Islam as an official religion in Italy.
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Until now, the government had earmarked 8 percent of income tax revenue for Italy’s established churches. The great majority of these funds go to the Catholic Church, although if they wish, individual tax payers may elect to give the money to charities and cultural projects instead.
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Islam is not an established religion in Italy and there is only one official mosque in the country, Rome’s Grand Mosque. Politicians from the ruling coalition cite radical imams, polygamy and failure to uphold women’s rights by Muslims immigrants as obstacles to recognising Islam as an official religion in Italy.
Until now, only the Catholic Church, Judaism and other established churches including Lutherans, Evangelists, Waldensians and 7th-day Adventists have received the income tax revenue from the Itallain government.
Categories: Italy, Uncategorized
I am not aware that in any country where the state collects a ‘church tax’ this is shared with any Muslims. On the contrary, Muslims are even usually paying ‘Church Taxes’. There is usually a way to avoid paying the Church tax (as a Muslim), but most ‘simple’ workers do not know how to take advantage of this exception.
“I am not aware that in any country where the state collects a ‘church tax’ this is shared with any Muslims.”
In Norway all religious communities get their fair share of the “Church Tax”, approximately $50 per member per year.
It would actually be a benefit to the countries in question when funding Mosques. Such mosques would not need to rely on Saudi Arabian (Wahabi) funding and therefore could become more independent. (Just a thought).
(Of course the Mosques of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at are financed by its members only and are therefore totally independent from any foreign donors and their ‘hidden agendas’).
It would be a benefit to expel all muslims and never have to hear their simpering and kvetching ever again.
‘Simpering and kvetching’ ? Sorry, do not get your meaning.
I am sure Insha Allah Ahmadiyya Muslim Community will be the first one to build the next mosque in Italy. Following extract from a Friday Sermon of Hadur in Italy is relevant in this context:
Hudhur delivered his Friday Sermon from Baitul Tauheed in San Pietro in Casale, Italy. Hudhur said it was with God’s grace that today Friday Sermon was being broadcast Live worldwide from Italy for the first time. In spite of members of the Community residing in the country for a long time in a reasonable number we do not have a centre or a mission house there. Some two years ago the site [from where the Sermon was relayed] was purchased, may God enable the construction of a mosque there and remove the hurdles in this matter. Hudhur said locals oppose the building due to their anti-Islam sentiments which are precipitated by the acts of certain Muslim groups. Those who have animosity against Islam will find any excuse to bring it into disrepute; it gives them a chance to fan the flames of ill will. Hudhur said prayers should be made that the hurdles are not only removed in this area but that we are also enabled to build a mission house in Rome.
Read complete text of this sermon here:
http://www.alislam.org/urdu/sermon/FST20100416-UR.pdf
Inshallah.
Get out f my country you filthy heretics! Italy is Christian and has been so for nearly 2,000 years ! Sooner or later, the rest of Italy will get sick of you and deport you all, even force the Brutus(traitors) amongst the Italians out!
Although this is not fair, its always good when the religion of death doesn’t get accepted.
However, Catholics are just as retarded for literally believing in ancient mythology.
That’s right… Today’s religion is still tomorrow’s mythology.
It is fair. It’s our country and our destiny to choose.
Religion of death Mr. Foxtrot? When I checked the Quran I saw:
“… let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do.” [Maidah 5:9]
It is a religion of rape and violence
I am Catholic and I am not retarded lets get that one straight, secondly its fair, they cause trouble where ever they go , throw them all out of the west including the converts
And why would that be? The Holy Quran describes killing of an innocent person as a holocaust or a genocide. An adulterer is to be punished with 100 stripes according to the Holy Quran, where is the room for rape?
Theft is to be punished by cutting of hands, which can be implemented literally, metaphorically and creatively to prevent violence and crime.
If you are an atheist, tell me why killing a primate or an ape is wrong, according to your ideology.
If you are a Christian, please try refuting the following article:
Violence in the Bible and Jihad in the Quran
Well if the Holly Quran describes killing of a innocent person as a holocaust then what about all the100 stripes witch is more like stikeing a girl half in the ground and chucking rocks and cutting hands off dose that not sound like killing to me
Dear Scottish calm down and take a deep breath.
What you are worried about stoning to death is mentioned in the Bible, not in the Holy Quran.
I guess you did not read the article about the Bible, which is linked above. If you read it then your righteous indignation will cool down enough that we may be able to hold bilateral, amicable discussion like grown up respectful adults.
You are talking babble..Christians don’t stone women you fool..only muslims do that.. yes..the Old Testament has stoning in it but Christ in the New Testament condemned it..Mohammad in Quran commanded stoning , sex slavery . etc so only MUSLIMS STONE because Mo did it..whatever is in the Bible you can quote all you like. Fact is Jews and Christians DO NOT STONE PEOPLE. Only you lot!
Nice try Muslims! The peaceful verses from your book are from when Mohamed had a small following and was not as powerful as he was later in life. The peaceful verses are superseded by the Newer more violent verses and if you get confused reading the instruction manual of world domination you are to use the more MODERN more VIOLENT verse! According to the main imam in Saudi. Or are all those videos on the internet posted by radicals bull shit??
Dear ‘rotten’-‘drew’. If you read The Muslim Times carefully you will note that we do not agree with the main Imam of Saudi Arabia. He for instance said that there should not be any churches in the Arab peninsula, while we pointed out that the Prophet Mohammad, peace be on him, even permitted Christians to pray in his mosque. etc. (other reader’s comments are appreciated).
Islam is a lively religion if someone dose not recognize as religion It his ignorance not others fault. About the women rights who can deny. the world was totally changed ethically socially economically politically after the appearance of Mohammad pbuh, The very important change was THE RESPECT of the WOMEN WAS ESTABLISHED first time in the world. As DAUGHTER SISTER WIFE MOTHER the great honor was awarded by only Prophet Mohammad pbuh. As a mother it was informed that Paradise lies under the feet of your mother. Woman has a first got a right to get education, economically freedom right. Inheritance rights, Marriage right at her own wish. All was given by religion Islam
The dignity of Woman was introduced in Islam only.Still in this age or time
No other religion can even imagine such honorable and dignified freedom for a women in the world. This kind of freedom leads towards a peaceful society well mannered and educated civilized nations.my slogan is if the mother, teachers doctors are given respect the whole nation will become respectable.
if muslim is the right religion i prefer go to the hell.non respect people 100%christian respectfull religion
Islam is the religion of the Devil
At state level recognition of religion needs certain criteria to be fulfilled. Probably no Muslim group in Italy is so organized and effective to fulfill such requirements.
I am surprised about the government of Italy not giving recognition to Islam to build mosques because of radical imams, polygamy and failure to uphold women’s rights by Muslims immigrants as obstacles to recognizing Islam as an official religion. That is not good. The Christians do not have any law. The Jews have a law and they follow that. But it is well known that Christians do not have any law. So how they are permitted to be recognized as a religion in Italy? In their book (bible) there is nothing about polygamy. There is nothing about women’s rights.
The Christian women were officially told to keep quiet in the church.
Bible blames the woman (Eve) about eating the apple and misguiding her man (Adam). The Quran does not do that. Islam gave the right to woman to hold property and a share in the inheritance, 1400 years ago.
I do not want to blame the Christians. They have what they have. But they should compare their beliefs by their book, not by the present day standards of life. The present day improvements are not due to any church teachings. They are a combined effort of all world people.
When your religion encourages you to slaughter all others and you actively believe it literally and kill Christians as in Syria and …
“Bible blames the woman (Eve) about eating the apple and misguiding her man (Adam). The Quran does not do that. Islam gave the right to woman to hold property and a share in the inheritance, 1400 years ago.”
It was a fruit, not necessarily an apple.
The Quran explicitly sets the value of a woman to be half that of a man, half inheritance, half the weight as a witness.
Jesus did not want us to mix religion and worldy affairs. Matthew 22,21: “And they said unto Him, “Caesar’s.” Then said He unto them, “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.””
What you are concluding about the half inheritance of a women is misleading and inaccurate. It has to be seen in the full context. The man with his share of the inheritance has to look after all the family. The women with her half share can keep it for herself. Let’s take an example that one man has one wife and five children. Therefore he has to look after 7 persons. The lady with her share has to look after herself only. Who is favored? Obviously the lady.
Sharon, Islam does not encourage us to kill non-believers. You are taking the worst examples from any Muslim, any time in history and then stereotyping all of Islam and all of the Muslims from the worst examples.
This is like saying, for example, at a given time in a given study 5-10% of population in a Christian country were guilty of incest and there are ten mentions of incest in the Bible.
If my above claims are true then we can easily generalize from there, as follows.
So, from that we conclude that Christianity is a religion about incest and all Christians are incestuous, therefore we should ban Christianity in every country of the world?
But, I know that I am just stereotyping from the worst examples and creating a witch hunt.
Or let us try this: The First Crusade was a war of aggression four centuries after Jerusalem was taken over by Caliph Umar in a bloodless siege. During the Crusade the Crusaders killed thousands of innocent Muslim women and children.
Are we to conclude from this that all Christians are war mongers, murderers and cannibals?
Certainly not, because the Holy Quran tells us:
And:
Islamist gunmen hold hostages in Kenya
“This is like saying, for example, at a given time in a given study 5-10% of population in a Christian country were guilty of incest and there are ten mentions of incest in the Bible.
If my above claims are true then we can easily generalize from there, as follows.
So, from that we conclude that Christianity is a religion about incest and all Christians are incestuous, therefore we should ban Christianity in every country of the world?”
Here is where you are wrong: In Christian nations we penalize incest with your offspring, in Norway by up to 6 years imprisonment. Bigamy (and by extension, polygamy) by up to 1 year. Thus we consider polygamy a barbarity, and countries which allow it are seen as having a deficit of culture, but incest, is far worse.
If you would read the verses below, Sharon, you will get the Quranic teachings about defensive war, at a glance, if you are looking for the truth. If you are in search ways to contradict, then after a little discussion, we will have no choice but to moderate your comments.
First the verses of Sura Hajj, when defensive war was first allowed:
Now, read the verses from Sura Baqara, which talk about peace options repeatedly:
There are millions muslims in Italy but many Catholics are haters and … they only attack muslims
if they only attack musllims then why is ther millions of muslims in Italy
Italy has every right to deny Islam whatever it likes.
The simple reason, its is their country, their rules. If islam does not like it (toerate it), they can return to any of the war torn Islamic dominated countries. No-one in the world will be disappointed.
Italy is a big country, mostly Christians. They should think over that there are many Christians in the world. But the next majority is the Muslims.
Christians will benefit by having good relation with the Muslims. There is no use denying a number two majority religion of the world.
Perhaps Christians are afraid of the Muslims!
ANswer me this, if islam is such a tolerant religion and people who practice islam are such peaceful people, then why is it that all countries ran under islamic law are over ran with violence and most non moslems are either forced to convert, pay moslems for the right to live ( jizya tax) or slaughtered? Common sense should tell people that if this pattern of violence over running all islamic countries for hundreds of years just keeps on happening, that just maybe islam is NOT a peaceful religion.
It is obvious that it is islam and it’s teachings and practices that are the problem. We can wipe out militants over and over and more will just pop up like they have been for hundreds of years. Its the same cycle over and over again and that should make it obvious that the problem isn’t militant, and it isn’t radicalization because if islam was teaching positive ideas and practices, there would be little room to twist it’s meanings into such violence by SO MANY people. Have you ever heard the term “Radicalized Christian”? That is because the old testament was changed into the NEW testament to clarify the teachings for todays Christians. Yes the Old testament is still there, but Christians don’t follow it’s outdated teachings anymore as some of them may be destructive in todays day and age. ( Having many wives in a time of overpopulation and corporal punishment when it is deemed by society to be barbaric are a couple of examples) SO when you moslems scream about “moderate or radicalized moslems”, I ask them why we never have to use the terms “radicalized CHristians, Jews,” or any other organized religious group. What about “moderate KKK members”? You moslems can talk till your blue in the face about what good and peaceful people you are, but until the actions of moslems worldwide stop being over all destructive and violent, anyone with any common sense wont believe you. We will believe what we see not what you say! You wouldn’t have to be constantly trying to convince everyone that islam is “a peaceful religion” if moslems weren’t so busy acting like a destructive supremacist organization!
Here we have the Problem of the usual ‘generalization’. 1.5 Billion Muslims are all put into the se Pot than a few Zens of thousands of Crazy militants and psychos.’
‘And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing’ – Quran (2:191-193)
…
Fitnah does not mean disbelief but persecution and here is the translation, with the context. The Quran is describing a state of defensive war, for the Muslims, as it highlights need to take every opportunity for peace:
Muslims are so delusional. Actions speak loader than words. Your sharia law stinks and gives women no fair rights.
You kill in the name of god. God created man in his own image, so why would god permit the killing of his creation? ONLY IN ISLAM.
The Bible clearly states that you shall never kill someone under any circumstance, yet the Quran allows it, which is clearly used by Muslims as a perfect excuse to murder hence why so much trouble exists in the world.
Stop trying to convince us about Islam being peaceful, your religion sucks.
Pete: what bible did the crusaders and the colonizers read? They murdered in the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost almost the entire American (North, Central and South) population, not to speak of Australia and Africa/Asia… Pete is blind. I say: just as Christians mis-read the intentions of the bible so do some Muslims mis-read the intention of the Qur’an. We have more in common than you think, the good and the wrong…
Violence in the Bible and Jihad in the Quran
Defensive War in the Holy Quran in 600 Words
@Peaceful haha (Sept 29):
‘And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing’ – Quran (2:191-193)
—————————————-
Already Zia H. Shah sahib has presented the right translation of the verses mentioned above. But it had no meaning, no effect on the opponents of Islam. I am presenting the correct translation of the verses 2:191-193 again. Please find any fault with the words and do not blame Islam for the bad deeds of some fanatic Muslims.
– – – – – – – – – – –
[‘And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [pesecution] is worse than killing’ – Quran (2:191-193)
[2:191] And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.
[2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers. ]
” And kill them…” is for those who persecute innocent people and turn them out of their homes…. They are called kafir. That means they are fanatic, hostile disbelievers who kill the Muslims. It is allowed to kill them where ever they are found.
There is nothing wrong with the teachings of the Quran. If the teaching is being misused by the fanatic Muslims then they should be punished with death and Islam should not be blamed.
If any one will blame Islam, it means he/she is supporting the terrorists.
Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
To cut of the hands of thiefs is just pure hatred for poor people. Islam treats women like second class citizens and belongs in the dark ages.
You hate art? Wtf…
Killing of an innocent is considered genocide, but to your fascistic beliefs the “infidel” is not innocent. Religion is intellectually handicapped. Belive in god not corrupted religion.
Wrong to kill a primate? Yes, killing anything you don’t have to is wrong.
Stop mission your fucked up beliefs I Europe, we finally got rid of Christianity, love is our religion
anders: you do not have a clue. I have two wives and both are bossing me around. It is like anywhere in the world. Just because they are polite in public does not mean they are not the bosses at home.
Those women are not here to tell who is bossing who around. One cannot rely on the words of a misogynist.
Zia, each time I ask you which of Muhammad’s 68 wars he instigated in the last 10 years of his life were defensive, you delete the post instead of answering the question. So, were the destruction of the Jewish settlements in Yathrib and the community of Mustaquil defensive?
Namelee and Zia.
I want to suggest you please do not argument Islam based on the men created books–such as the book of Hadith, History book of Prophet or his companions,
because the men created books are not not the true history of prophet Muhammad(pbuh ), or history of Islam.
Just west your time , and you can not get the truth at all…because based on false books. Thanks
Was Salam
With love
@ Zia Shah–it seem to me that now, you are still supporting the ancient Islamic laws such as;
An adulterer is to be punished with 100 stripes according to the Holy Quran, where is the room for rape?
Theft is to be punished by cutting of hands, which can be implemented literally, metaphorically and creatively to prevent violence and crime.
If you are an atheist, tell me why killing a primate or an ape is wrong, according to your ideology.
Is this your opinion or Muslim Ahmadiyah’s belief?
Extremist Muslim, terrorist are still implementing all ancient Islamic laws…
Could you tell us what else are the differences between Extremist and Muslim Ahmadiyah? besides ; anti violence and follow Secular-democratic system.
We want to know better about Muslim Ahmadiyah stand for in implementing Islamic laws.
Was Salam
With love
TMT begins the New Year with one of the most heinous attacks on the basic human rights, that of free speech and the right to differ in thought.
At least four(4) of my comments have been ‘moderated’ out of existence by being sent to the web’s black hole just this morning. That foretells of things to come. When the site bombards itself with shouts of ‘free speech’, ‘secularism’, ‘democracy’ and every other benefit associated with a free society, those who know better see through the meaningless gimmick.
Your comments are being moderated because you lack the way to decently communicate. Also many of your questions or opinions have been clarified again and again, of which you do not take notice. But keep trying: if you manage to be somewhat polite it might meet TMTs standard.
@ Dear Rafiq and Zia—-If you do not mind I would like to suggest you both regarding freedom of speech or hate speech. Actually, the genuine Islamic teaching is freedom of speech, expression and religion, and there is no compulsory and force. That makes Islam is peaceful religion.
Hopefully, TMT will not repeat the mistake of extremist Muslim. Extremist Muslim created a blasphemy laws, in order they can ban, punish to death whose who insult Islam or prophet.
What is the definition of insulting Islam, hate speech etc ?
Extremist Muslim set their own interpretation of insulting Islam.
For example; They accuse Muslim Ahmadiyah, Shia, etc are insulting Islam, because the do not follow their own interpretation of Islam. They think that their own interpretation of Islam is the right one, and others are false, and should be banned and punished. They are wrong side.
So if TMT set their own interpretation of hate speech, or insulting Islam or Ahmadiyah and then you delete or ban him. I believe that there is no difference between Muslim Ahmadiyah and Extremist Muslim who have been punishing Ahmadiyah for decades.
Hopefully Raziq and Zia can follow Prophet Muhammad(pbuh);
You can not force them to follow your rule, every one has the right to speak what they want to tell. Your duty is to remind those who insult Islam or Ahmadiyah etc
A wise man when he talks will make others happy, but idiot or stupid one try to hurt some one.
A wise leader listen wisely to all people, he never hurt someone,but a bad leader punish idiot people.
Hopefully, Rafiq and Zia stand for Secular-democracy, liberty and freedom of speech, expression and religion.
Let us make the year 2016 will be a blessing, wonderful year. Amen
I wish you all here a blessed Holiday and happy New year 2016.
Was salam
With love
Namelee we allow your free speech as above but need to exclude your hate speech. If you can self censor it will make our job easier. Happy new year to you.
Dear Zia—Those who does hates speech is usually not a good man, or not wise man–but idiot one, you do not need to pay attention–you do not need to hurt him by deleting his article.
We can not draw the red line of hate speech—every one has interpretation, so that is why in secular democratic system stand for freedom of speech and expression.
Hopefully, TMT really stand for liberty, and freedom of speech and expression.
Only extremist government limit the freedom of speech and expression such as Saudi Arabia etc.
Was salam
With love
Rafiq, in 2014, you asked Pete, which Bible the crusaders and colonizers read, because according to you, they ‘murdered’ the indigenous populations of the Americas, Africa/Asia? What did you base your claim on? The jihadists based their rampage on the quran. The Crusaders were motivated by the drive to reclaim what was theirs.
The Crusaders have always been presented in the poorest of lights by the ignorant or the devious and, in some cases, by both. The crusades were limited self defensive actions taken to cast off almost 500 years of Islamic yoke on the Christians of the Holy Land. The objective was limited to the Holy Land. It did not seek to dislodge islam from Saudi Arabia or the other territories it had conquered by the sword. To present the Crusaders as the guilty ones is to reward the aggressor and lay down the rule that aggression is profitable or as they say, ‘might is right’.
The African and Asian populations were decimated, not by European colonizers, but by genocidal muslim armies who went hunting and haunting for slaves, killing and pillaging. It has not yet ended but at its peak, it did at least four times the harm that the trans-Atlantic slavery did to the people of Africa. Under Islamic rule, India was to lose about 100 million of its citizens.
It was islam that first colonized Europe for at least 800 years during which time that continent was mercilessly raped and its advanced civilization laid waste by the jackboot a worse than barbarian hordes. The table turned for only a few years after the Barbary pirate states, which menaced the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, were sent to oblivion. Even a young country like the United States was not spared the harsh treatment of paying tribute to the pirates which went to increase the coffers of the rogue sultan in Constantinople, now Istanbul.
The problem muslims have with European colonization is that it ended the doctrine and practice of dhimmitude. That freed the non muslims who were held in utter contempt as inferior beings by their muslim tormentors. The muslims hated the equal status the Europeans gave to the ex-dhimmis who ceased to be chattels owned by their slave masters.
I do not know what history books Namelee reads.Europe’s ‘Renaissance’ started due to the high educational and scientific level of Arab Spain and Arab Sicily. There was no ‘advanced civilization’ in Europe at the time. All history books I read state that.
Zia,
What you call hate speech is anything which is factual and conflicts with your subjective world view. The moment a comment deviates from your pre-conceived direction, you brand it ‘hate speech’. Had I been white, I would have been a racist by now. None of those matters to me.
Though the truth is bitter, it should always be accorded its pride of place. Muhammad said his movement is both government and religion. For that reason it is political and should not be shielded from scrutiny which you mischievously call ‘hate speech’.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cUvbQWmDJY&w=420&h=315%5D
Video: Ṣaladin: Who taught Europe the Ethics of War
Rafiq,
My language is no more impolite than yours or that of the others at TMT. You are not in a position to know how what you say hurts the other person because you are not at the receiving end.
My post of today were deleted not because the language was uncouth or the subject matters had been clarified’ before. It stems from simple intolerance.
The history I am familiar with tells me that,an edifice as magnificent as the Hagia Sofia in Constantinople, the aqueducts in Rome, the Appian ways, the Greek temples, the library of Ptolemy were built long before the Renaissance. During Muhammad’s time, the Quraish did not have a carpenter to reroof the kaaba. They had to give the job to a Copt, an Egyptian whose country had been ruled at various times by Greece and Rome. The Arabs lived in caves and huts and were awed by Damascus which had been made a cosmopolitan metropolis by the European rulers.
There are roads in the English countryside, still in use, which were built during the rule of Julius Caesar.
I am more familiar with that history than anything cooked up by romanticized historians.
Zia,
The Europeans could not learn the ‘ethics of war’ from Saladin whose ethics consisted of killing black soldiers who served under him for alleged mutiny and selling prisoners to enrich his treasury. The latter acts were regarded by his admirers as humane since he had power over the lives of his captives.
The same thing that Boko Haram would say for constantly abducting women and girls for various purposes including suicide bombings. On Monday, just after last Christmas, 80 people were killed in Northern Nigeria, including 30 who were pulverized by female suicide bombers. Those killings derived their legitimacy from the same source as Saladin’s ‘ethics of war’.
I am grateful to live in a country in which I am free to speak my mind. For instance, I am free to say that I do not recognize islam as a religion. I believe islam is a cult. A cult of oppression and conquest. I believe mohammad was a fraud.
If I were in a country where the muslim population is over 90%, (Iran, Afghanistan) would I be allowed to say those things and continue to be alive? I seriously doubt it.